How do you forgive?

[Jinx]

I know this has been mulled over ad infinitum, but this is something I've been dealing with a lot lately. I have three children, young adults, who are all dealing with the fallout of leaving the church in various ways, which makes me furious that I ever brought them into it in the first place. Here's something I posted on Facebook (in the absence of the beloved NOM forum).

After having been deceived, misled, and taken advantage of for forty years, how do you forgive the church? How do you forgive yourself for letting it happen? I feel like I'm at war with the Mormon part of me and I want that part to just go away but I know it never will.
If I had the time back that I devoted to the church I could volunteer in the community doing things that really help people. If I had the money back that I paid in tithing I could build a new homeless shelter instead of a huge mall.

Almost every day I find myself humming a hymn or Primary song and I deliberately replace it with a pop song or showtune. I know I'll never be able to eradicate Mormon culture from my instincts or my thinking. I still find myself judging women's hemlines by the old Mormon standard before I mentally slap myself. How do I come to terms with that?

I would like to be able to look back with a chuckle instead of with anger. I've been mentally checked out of the church for 3-4 years now but I still can't manage it.

[hiding in plain sight]

Jinx,

You have expressed your feeling so beautifully. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.

I agree with you. What the church leaders have done is very similar to a cheating spouse. They lied straight to our faces and then blamed us. It is really hard for me to want to find the place for forgiving someone, who isn't acknowledging that they actually did us harm. And even worse, they are actively demonizing us.

How do you forgive someone like that?

For me it is all about time. I am now 7 years into this and and finding more and more peace each year. But even now I can still find myself getting angry at the hypocrisy of it all.

But I tend to gravitate towards some Buddhist thoughts. Live in the moment. Don't let your ego cause you pain because of others' actions.

When I can follow that type of advice I find myself in a healthier place.

All the best. You are definitely not alone.

[2bizE]

Thank you for your thoughts Jinx. That is exactly how I feel. I have been able to forgive people in my life, it I cannot get past being deceived by the church. This is no different a deception than Madoff and his financial scheme. I cannot move on because I cannot forgive.

[Alas2.0]

You cannot forgive an organization. You have to forgive each person in that organization who contributed to the culture.

So, I recommend you start with yourself. That is usually hardest. Why did you believe? Because you were surrounded by others who believed? After you forgive yourself for being gullible and trusting, move on to the parents who took you to church，(assuming you were born into the church) then, move onto the primary teachers, YM (or YW) leaders. Eventually you will get to the top leaders and then forgive them the same way, as individuals who may have had reasons for maintaining what they may or may not suspect is a false story about the church's beginnings or whether or not they talk directly to God.

[Corsair]

Let's separate forgiveness from trust. Those are two different concepts and Jesus never told us to trust someone that harms us. He only taught that we should forgive everyone and discard the pursuit of vengeance or initiating a feud. If someone borrows money from me and never repays me, I may forgive the debt but I will never trust them with money again. If a house guest steals from me I might forgive the property and may not pursue them for damages, but earning back trust may be an unassailable barrier.

You don't have to trust the LDS church at all for future interactions. You are welcome to avoid all interactions with the LDS church or members if that brings you peace of mind. But you could and should forgive them in favor of simply being indifferent to the organization while never trusting them. You can't really pursue vengeance against the church particularly because there are probably many friends and family member who still belong. So while you may not bad mouth the church in front of them, you aren't required to believe or pay attention to anything that LDS leaders or the PR department say in any setting.

Discard the animosity, retain the operational mistrust. This is one path towards peace

[Jinx]

Discard the animosity, retain the operational mistrust. This is one path towards peace

I like that. Simple enough to photoshop into a meme. Funny enough, DH doesn't have the anger I have. But then he never really believed any of it. He's mostly mad at himself for putting up with it when he knew it wasn't true. I don't know if that's worse or better.

[moksha]

We are all in charge of writing our own narrative. Perhaps you could add this to yours:

"Jinx decided that dwelling on regrets ultimately took too much energy and only tended to be self-perpetuating. Jinx decided to call a halt to those regrets and chose the realization that life goes on and that whatever regrets transpired before cannot overshadow the other good things in that narrative.

Being pleased with the rewrite, Jinx treated herself to a slice of baklava and a Diet Coke."

Sorry, I guess I added a bit of myself to that last sentence. Best wishes.

I am Jinx, hear me roar
My growth's too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'Cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes, I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can tame regrets
I am strong
I am invincible
I am Jinx

[Silver Girl]

Let's separate forgiveness from trust. Those are two different concepts and Jesus never told us to trust someone that harms us.

I would add anger to the list of what to separate and deal with individually, or to nuance in the process. Trust is definitely part of the issue; when you distrust someone or something, you might also have fear of that thing or person. Or maybe you have fear that you allowed yourself to get into a vulnerable situation.

Forgiveness - well, that is complicated for me. The semantics of that word, in our culture, imply that it's tantamount to saying, "It's all okay!" I don't agree with that interpretation of it at all. The word actually means to stop feeling anger or placing blame (there's another meaning as well, related to 'forgiving a debt,' and that could refer to the church as well).

If you put things into the context of the church, and if you use the definition related to anger, blame or resentment, there are indeed many layers to address. I agree with Corsair - we need to stop feeling anger at ourselves - we are not to blame. We believe lies, and/or believed what we were taught as innocent children. For those who grew up in the church, things get even more complicated - it is conflicting to be angry and your own parents or tribe, and on top of that, you realized your own parents were tricked.

Since I joined as an adult & was literally sold a bill of false goods, I still deal with being angry at myself. But the feeling I have toward the church is that it committed something like Spiritual Rape - deliberately lying to someone about faith and matters of God and Christ, and deliberately withholding the truth is a form of violation that cuts to the deep core of a person - similar to the mortal damage of physical rape.

I think the church tosses out the word 'forgiveness' too easily and too randomly. That word is used to blame the victim - often, when a person who has been grievously violated and is in horrible pain goes to a leader for counsel and comfort, the first thing the leaders asks is whether the victim has 'forgiven' the one who violated them. That's a bunch of crap, and it's abusive - it adds to the damage, it does not repair it or offer comfort. For a person to move past the anger ('forgive'), they first have to heal - and with the church experience, that is a long, long process that has many varied layers. Nobody should punish themselves for not getting through it quickly, or for still having pain related to some element of it.

[wtfluff]

How does one "forgive" someone, or something (an organization) that has caused them harm, when that someone, or something (organization) consistently continues to cause that harm?

[Red Ryder]

How does one "forgive" someone, or something (an organization) that has caused them harm, when that someone, or something (organization) consistently continues to cause that harm?

What fluffy said!

Every time I find peaceful bliss, I'm reminded that I'm going to be excluded from my own children's temple weddings (assuming they choose to marry in the el teimplo). So while I'm no longer feeling anger towards the church, it's turned to a complete utter lack of disrespect.

Having watched the leaked videos, my suspicions have been proven true that the church is run by a bunch of inept clowns.

[trophywife26.2]

This book https://www.amazon.com/Releasing-Bonds- ... 0967068800 helped me begin to forgive myself and others.

[clean sweep]

When faced with a significant contradiction or contradictions in your life, you accept those contradictions, make adjustments in how you live and think and leave the contradictions to the group who created them. Within your personal life when you find that you have been living within contradiction, you evaluate your premises, change your premises if needed, apply them to your personal values and move on. We are not static and the church wants us to be static. I have also come to believe that we have been taught to believe in the redemption fallacy. That being that we have a responsibility to redeem others for the hurt and wrong doing they have committed in our lives through our forgiveness and that for some reason we also have to forgive ourselves for the fact that we were deceived by a group that espoused as virtue the hurt that their doctrine permitted and that we lived that doctrine without having the knowledge to make a rational decision regarding the values the organization taught. We have to let go of the idea the church teaches that essentially if we find that something is wrong with what we believed and that we followed those teachings that it is our fault that it was wrong and did not work out.

[Jinx]

My parents were adult converts. They were looking for a church to raise my brother and me in, and there was a babysitter they particularly liked, and she was Mormon. So in a way it's their fault, but I don't really blame them. I do think it's curious, however, that they fell for it so hard. They were both raised in other religions and realized those other religions were pretty bogus, but somehow they bought into this one. My parents are both smart people. I don't think my dad particularly bought it, but he went along to make mom happy. But I don't know how they feel now. We don't really talk church much.

My brother annoys me more. He served a mission in Independence Missouri. He knows all the history stuff, all the falsities, all the nasty crap that went on. There's nothing I could tell him that he wouldn't already be familiar with. He sticks with it anyway because a) how else could he raise his children to be decent people? and b) his wife is a TBM and why should he rock the boat? It's just not important to him. He's in a bishopric these days. I wonder how many people in my ward know all the truth and still stick with the organization. It's kind of baffling. And I know that my family's victories will never be as important to my parents as his victories, because he's still in the church and I'm not. It will always be "how wonderful that our grandson is a National Merit scholar! I wish he were a priest as well..."

*sigh*

[Corsair]

And I know that my family's victories will never be as important to my parents as his victories, because he's still in the church and I'm not. It will always be "how wonderful that our grandson is a National Merit scholar! I wish he were a priest as well..."

*sigh*

That's a tough story and I can empathize. The LDS church provides a robust social support and we are unintentionally trained to value the accomplishments of the Mormons in our lives, particularly when they are family. I think we all underestimate the social pressure to maintain the LDS model of family life with faithful mother, priesthood father, and multiple children all faithfully attending. Once you leave the church you are unexpectedly faced with a lack of social validation that simply drops to nothing once the TBMs in your life feel uneasy about your spiritual detour. They are unwittingly expecting catastrophe in your personal life with anticipation that borders on hoping that tragedy will lead you back into faithful activity.

We have to find and cultivate social bonds outside the church to replace the loss of LDS validation. It is difficult because we are so accustomed to LDS interaction. Building that sense of purpose without others around to help you is a lonely, bitter experience. Finding sympathetic apostates is water in the desert. It is easier to forgive the LDS church once you find your new tribe and change your attitude towards LDS Inc. into indifference.

[Jinx]

But it's very difficult to find a new tribe when you are still stuck in Utah County. DH and I have joined a couple meet up groups and an out-of-town book group, and I have taken a new volunteer position and made some new friends, but everyone in this town just assumes I'm Mormon. It's irritating. But we will move someday, maybe soon, and I will finally stop attending. And life will be better.

[Deepthinker]

I’m really sorry you’re having a hard time forgiving. I’ve gone through what I think is a hard part of that process, but I haven’t had to face family shunning, wife leaving, or any other types of horrible things that could result just from a change in beliefs about God.

There really is nobody to seek forgiveness from, and that can be the most frustrating part. Who do we direct our anger towards? An institution that has no interest in hearing our grievances against it? Our parents who didn’t have access to the information about the church that we do?

The best advice I can give is from this quote that I came across. Not sure who is the author, but I thought it was a beautiful way to express forgiveness. Particularly, since there isn’t anyone to seek forgiveness from.

A little girl was asked what forgiveness is...

She gave a beautiful answer...

"It is the fragrance that flowers give when they are crushed..."

Show your family, ward members, the church, and everyone else that you can live a beautiful and inspiring life, even though the harm done to you has been crushing.