TSM Hospitalized - will this become more frequent?

[Korihor]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43751995&nid=14 ... eased-soon

I wonder if this will become a more frequent headline.

[MerrieMiss]

I really don't understand propping him up to speak in conference or not retiring him when he obviously isn't well. Even as a TBM this wouldn't have set well with me. I mentioned it to my husband on Sunday and he just shrugged and said it was a lifelong calling, so oh well, and the Q15 would take care of things, to which I replied, "Too many cooks in the kitchen."

We then had a discussion about succession and I pointed out the rules for that have changed over time as well. Why doesn't the lord give a revelation that since people are living longer that there is a retirement opt-out? I really don't understand the point of keeping him in there.

[20/20hind]

It's sad that they don't have these guys go emeritus at an earlier age. Let them retire.

[Red Ryder]

It's anything but sad! These guys don't want to go emeritus status. They've lived there lives in the service of the church. It's a badge of honor to die while in office. To leave a legacy that will continue to live through conference talks, lessons, and future Ensign articles until the next prophet dies.

The cycle only lasts for one living prophet. We still hear about Hinckley today and will do so until Monson dies. Then the Hinckley post death prophet worship will fade to Bruce R. McConkie levels as the membership worships the last dead prophet and the current living prophet. It's a twooo prophet system.

I'm more interested in what Monson is thinking. "Will I finally meet Jesus?" "I'm scared of the unknown! I hope it's really what we've been telling people all these years?" "Will Sister Monson be meeting me? Will she be the 25 year old Zoobie with that tight little ass I loved to grab back in 1946?" "God I miss those days of poodle skirts and car hops!" "Mmmm, I could use some ice cream right about now!" "Dieter, Dieter, Dieeeeeeter! Bring the car around and take me to Sonic for some ice creeeeeeeeam! Daddy wants some frozen yummmmies! Dieeeeeeter, where are thou my boy? Dieeeter! Don't make me ride with Henry again! Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeter....."

[MerrieMiss]

It's anything but sad! These guys don't want to go emeritus status. They've lived there lives in the service of the church. It's a badge of honor to die while in office. To leave a legacy that will continue to live through conference talks, lessons, and future Ensign articles until the next prophet dies.

I agree that they don't want emeritus status, at least while they are younger, healthier and not plagued by dementia. Who knows when they're really there what they want.

But I guess what I find truly sad is that a lot of church members don't seem to have empathy for him. The Q15 don't seem to have empathy for each other. You would think that if you really cared about the man you would let him retire while he is on top, give him a break and let him enjoy the end of life. Or if you really cared about the church you wouldn't let a vacuum of power exist. Or if you really wanted the next position of power you would suggest that it was time for someone to step down...

[fh451]

I wonder if this will become a more frequent headline.

Seems likely. I remember before President Kimball's final demise it seemed like he was in and out of the hospital every other week.

fh451

[20/20hind]

It's anything but sad! These guys don't want to go emeritus status. They've lived there lives in the service of the church. It's a badge of honor to die while in office. To leave a legacy that will continue to live through conference talks, lessons, and future Ensign articles until the next prophet dies.

The cycle only lasts for one living prophet. We still hear about Hinckley today and will do so until Monson dies. Then the Hinckley post death prophet worship will fade to Bruce R. McConkie levels as the membership worships the last dead prophet and the current living prophet. It's a twooo prophet system.

I'm more interested in what Monson is thinking. "Will I finally meet Jesus?" "I'm scared of the unknown! I hope it's really what we've been telling people all these years?" "Will Sister Monson be meeting me? Will she be the 25 year old Zoobie with that tight little ass I loved to grab back in 1946?" "God I miss those days of poodle skirts and car hops!" "Mmmm, I could use some ice cream right about now!" "Dieter, Dieter, Dieeeeeeter! Bring the car around and take me to Sonic for some ice creeeeeeeeam! Daddy wants some frozen yummmmies! Dieeeeeeter, where are thou my boy? Dieeeter! Don't make me ride with Henry again! Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeter....."

You mentioned your more inrerested in what what Monson is thinking.

I bet he is pretty confident with his calling and election made sure AKA second anointing.

[nibbler]

There's propping him up and letting him retire, there's also the possibility that someone has to step in and have an intervention. For all we know Monson is the one pushing himself.

If reports are true, that he has dementia to some degree or other, he likely can't reason or be reasoned with. Good luck taking the car keys away from your parents some day. It sucks.

[wtfluff]

he just shrugged and said it was a lifelong calling, so oh well

Translation: Being called into the Q15 is a death sentence.

[document]

I grew up in the Hinckley era. While I was alive during the very end of Kimball and Benson, I don't remember them. I wasn't really old enough (primary age) when Hunter was president.

My mother told me a while back that I had it "nice" in that Hinckley was healthy and mentally there pretty much to the end. To her, the prophet was an old sick man. To me, it was a youthful and vibrant old man.

[Korihor]

Still there
http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/5 ... nson-still

All the faithful wish him a speedy recovery. I simply wish him peace, whatever that may be.

I don't understand how people continue to think he is "in the office daily" leading the church. If a couple talks of a few minutes each hospitalized him, there isn't much left in the gas tank. He's fought the good fight, he's endured to the end, it's time to stop the parade and let him rest from his labours for a season.

[wtfluff]

... I simply wish him peace, whatever that may be. ...

... He's fought the good fight, he's endured to the end, it's time to stop the parade and let him rest from his labours for a season. ...

I agree with the above statements.

When he's able to be active, he should be in his back-yard, with his kids and grand-kids, sipping his favorite soda...

[Silver Girl]

It's sad that they don't have these guys go emeritus at an earlier age. Let them retire.

I agree - HInckley spent several of his wife's last days babysitting GC. There are a ton of meetings before and after each GC, and all but a few hours of each conference are completely eaten up. Most of the rest of us are at our loved ones' bedsides when they're leaving this world. They need to know we are there, and we need to know we were with them as much as possible. It's so sad to watch a loved one die, but the cult had to take precedence over sharing those final hours. Tell me this isn't evil...

[Red Ryder]

Tell me this isn't evil...

In the context of Mormonism, it's not evil.

It's dedication to the church. To the cause. To the Latter-Day war against Stan. Getting old, frail, and weak is merely a mortal slow down at the end of this earthly race. Death in Mormonism isn't the finish line. It's not even a quick pit stop at the eternal porta-potty on the side of the road of this earthly marathon. Death is nothing but a transfer to the next "mission area" in the plan of salvation. A reunion with a spouse who preceded you in death. A reunion with family members, old neighbors in the ward, and future missionary opportunities to teach Muslims, Bhuddists, and millions of Catholics who never got a chance to accept the gospel while living on the planet earth!

Monson may be getting old and replaced by the AutoPen. But in no way is he ready to step down or feeling sorry for himself. It was probably his decision to speak and enjoy the last moments of Mormon infamy. He's dedicated his life to the church. He's ready to die for the church. He's ready for his legacy to live on for eternity in the manuals of Sunday School. I don't have any real information, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's already pre-ordered extra copies to be sent around the world in numerous languages to bless the lives of Mormons everywhere. Not to mention getting rid of stagnant inventory in a Deseret warehouse in SLC.

God bless his soul! He's earned it in the context of Mormonism!!

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

These men knew what prophethood was when they picked it up!

[Red Ryder]

These men knew what prophethood was when they picked it up!

Exactly. Plus they knew from reading the unwritten rules in the journal of nepotism!

[MerrieMiss]

My mother told me a while back that I had it "nice" in that Hinckley was healthy and mentally there pretty much to the end. To her, the prophet was an old sick man. To me, it was a youthful and vibrant old man.

I'm a few years older than you, but yes, to me a prophet was a man who could talk, get around, and get things done.

I don't understand how people continue to think he is "in the office daily" leading the church. If a couple talks of a few minutes each hospitalized him, there isn't much left in the gas tank. He's fought the good fight, he's endured to the end, it's time to stop the parade and let him rest from his labours for a season.

I'm not an attorney so I don't much about these things and I also don't know how ill he is, but let's just say he's incapable of making his own (financial, medical, etc) decisions, who makes them? Who has the authority to make his decisions in the church? Is there some kind of legal document that states this? And if he can't manage a personal bank account, how can he manage the church? As I said before, even as TBM, this wouldn't have made any sense to me.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

My mother told me a while back that I had it "nice" in that Hinckley was healthy and mentally there pretty much to the end. To her, the prophet was an old sick man. To me, it was a youthful and vibrant old man.

I'm a few years older than you, but yes, to me a prophet was a man who could talk, get around, and get things done.

I don't understand how people continue to think he is "in the office daily" leading the church. If a couple talks of a few minutes each hospitalized him, there isn't much left in the gas tank. He's fought the good fight, he's endured to the end, it's time to stop the parade and let him rest from his labours for a season.

I'm not an attorney so I don't much about these things and I also don't know how ill he is, but let's just say he's incapable of making his own (financial, medical, etc) decisions, who makes them? Who has the authority to make his decisions in the church? Is there some kind of legal document that states this? And if he can't manage a personal bank account, how can he manage the church? As I said before, even as TBM, this wouldn't have made any sense to me.

This is a good question. He is the corporate sole. I would assume they have a power of attorney contingency in place that allows his corporate decisions to be made by one of the councilors or the pres of the quorum.

[Red Ryder]

I'm not an attorney so I don't much about these things and I also don't know how ill he is, but let's just say he's incapable of making his own (financial, medical, etc) decisions, who makes them? Who has the authority to make his decisions in the church? Is there some kind of legal document that states this? And if he can't manage a personal bank account, how can he manage the church? As I said before, even as TBM, this wouldn't have made any sense to me.

TSM is the Corporate Sole. That means he owns the whole schmozzle on paper.

I'm assuming there are fail safe policies and procedures in place to prevent him from locking everyone out and moving to Tahiti. The Q15 assumes the role of a Corporate Board and collectively make decisions on behalf of the church. That's why they are business leaders, attorneys, and heart surgeons. The latter is called in order to remove all love and compassion that may exist in the hearts of these men prior to their call to serve.

The Presiding Bishop and his counselors are the real CEO's who run the business empire. They report to the Board of Directors (Q15). The PB is probably 1 of 3 people that see everything and know the big picture in regards to $ and total worth of the church.

So to answer your question. The Prophet doesn't do the day to day things at all. He leads from a puppet perspective, while also governing the affairs of the church as a manager of people. Hinckley was an excellent business leader who positioned the church for growth, PR, and plastic sacrament cups. Monson, not so much other than to make the widows feel loved and accepted while generating fodder for his conference talks and ear wiggling.

[Meilingkie]

I was sitting in a very small room today and suddenly a thought sprang into my mind.

There Will be hearseraces again in SLC very soon.....
Monson VS Hales VS Nelson