The rescue is on!

[TestimonyLost]

Last weekend, I finally came clean with my wife about my total lack of belief. She’s had an idea about my issues with the church for quite some time. A few years ago, she asked me to fake it and so I’ve been doing so since then. However, this latest discussion has finally convinced her that this isn’t a phase.

She’s handled it pretty well compared to many stories I’ve read over the years. But she’s not giving up on my testimony yet. She proposed reading the Book of Mormon together to begin “bringing me back to the light” (my snarky words but confirmed by her). After further discussion, she emphasized that she wanted it to be positive and uplifting. I balked at the idea but I agreed to do so if she’d read the church essays with me and listen to my concerns with them. She said she already knew what was in them but I made it clear that my intent was not to educate her on the content of them but to share of my concerns in the context of a church-approved source. She agreed.

There was one other interesting aspect of the discussion. I asked her if she could ever get to a point where she could accept and respect my journey if it resulted in total unbelief. She said she could.

Anyway, a day later and I’m having second thoughts. I question how productive reading the church essays with her will be. I’m afraid I’ll just be the jackass tearing down her beliefs and the church she loves. I don’t know if my goal of just wanting her to understand some of my concerns will actually be met. Also, the thought of trudging through the Book of Mormon just depresses me. We already read from the scriptures both as a family and as a couple EVERY DAY. That’s anywhere from 20-30 minutes of my day now and I know her intent would be to expand that time with this proposed Book of Mormon plan.

I’d love any advice from you fine folks based on theory or experience. How can I gently help her to understand just a bit of where I’m coming from? To be clear, I’m not seeking deconversion here because I think that’s nigh impossible. Also, how can I make an effort without going insane? That last one is admittedly tongue-in-cheek with more than a touch of sincerity…

[Linked]

You know your situation best, but here are a couple thoughts that came up while reading through your situation:

• You are probably on a bit of an emotional roller coaster right now after a discussion of that magnitude. Reading the BoM with her and having her read the essays with you might be just fine, I would give it a few days to adjust to the new normal before changing your deal.
• If you do read the BoM with DW try to have an open 2 way dialogue about it. I'm guessing there are parts in there that bother you now; respectfully let her know and allow her to have some empathy for your position. Also, listen to her about what she likes about it and try to validate her for it. There are bound to be disagreements, but try to be respectful and loving and agree to disagree on some things. Easier said than done, but just some ideas.
• Give it a few days, then try reading through one of the essays together. If it doesn't go well that's okay and you don't have to keep doing it, but at least you both gave it a try.

Advice worth what was paid for it...

It sounds like you are both open to communicating about this stuff, I say go for it and see how it goes. You will know if it goes badly. But if it goes well then you have a stronger, more connected marriage even if she doesn't come around to your views.

Good luck!

[Red Ryder]

Since you state that deconversion isn't the goal than just be honest and go through your concerns with her. Take a gentle approach and put the burden of loss on the church. The church created this mess. You're just trying to make sense of it all.

Frame your problems with the church in terms of how the specific issues make you feel. The key here is to get her to feel empathy for you. Not sympathy, as that doesn't correlate with an emotional connection.

Last, she'll see right through your half assed attempts to read the BOM. Here's an idea. Do it seriously with a few different colored highlighters and mark up the meaningful verses in one color, the biblical context in one color, and the filler material in another color. After going through it, you can show her exactly what the BOM means to you.

5% is meaningful.
95% sounds like a man dictating nonsense with his head in a hat.

[MerrieMiss]

You’re ahead of me in your faith journey and your relationship with your wife, but something I’ve bookmarked as possible in future conversations with my husband is Bill Reel’s podcast “To our Loved Ones.” I think it outlines many issues in a very gentle way for a believer. If my recollection is accurate, it was almost apologetic in tone and nuanced. You might listen to it and use it at some point if you think it could be beneficial.

I like Linked’s suggestion to validate what she likes – after all, there’s good stuff in there, there’s just a lot of nonsense too. And show her passages from the BoM that trouble you –Nephi/Laban, skin of darkness, the fact that words have been changed, etc. (If you have an older version with some of the differences, compare and contrast them - I have been looking everywhere for my 1970s copy that has all the “archeological evidence” in the back that the Native Americans and the Lamanites are the same people but I must have put that copy in a box somewhere long ago). Really dig in and ponder everything the BoM has to offer. In my experience, asking the questions I was seriously pondering and put on my shelf years ago is beneficial. Posing the questions in a non-threatening way and not saying that I have answer makes the conversation more amicable. “Why would god ask Nephi to do such a thing? Couldn’t he steal his clothing? Isn’t killing Laban messy? And why couldn’t he just give Nephi the info in a vision? Just seems kind of odd.” And move on without beating the issue too much – I find the the self-restraint to be the difficult part.

I also like RR’s idea of marking up the book. It gives you something to do and makes you look serious. Other than that, I wish you luck. I don’t know what I would do if I had to read the BoM again. I never liked it as a TBM.

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/ ... ggle-real/
https://juvenileinstructor.wordpress.co ... oductions/

[Silver Girl]

Congratulations on having what sounds like a fairly open discussion with her. That's a big step.

On an objective level, I think agreeing to what she requested is a good thing, because it shows you care about her and care about the things that are important to her. If you can get through reading the BoM with her, I bow to your strength.

On a subjective level, I have to say I felt internal tension and almost had a PTSD attack & flashback when visualizing whether I could do that with someone. I've read the BoM several times & even listened to the audio version (former TBM that I was at the time). I never, ever liked the book. I haven't tried reading it since I broke free, but the idea is almost traumatizing to me at this point.

[Grace2Daisy]

I balked at the idea but I agreed to do so if she’d read the church essays with me and listen to my concerns with them. She said she already knew what was in them but I made it clear that my intent was not to educate her on the content of them but to share of my concerns in the context of a church-approved source. She agreed.

I know reading the essays together would allow discussion, but what I did is have my wife read information herself. In doing so she came to conclusions that were the same as mine. She has spent decades teaching in the church (former ward and stake RS President, YWP and PP) and so I knew she would read them and find areas wherein the church changed its teaching (face in the hat with a rock, no use of the plates, JS/Polygamy, the different visions, etc.), which she did.

She would come and tell me the specific essay she finished and I would simply say, "Do you have any questions?" She would shake her head no, and then a few days later she would tell me of another essay she finished. Eventually we had some great discussion after she had read and studied them all, and then a month or so later I gave her the CES Letter to read. There was no "convincing" on my part, she came to her own conclusions at her own speed.

Could we have accomplished the same thing if we had read them together? Maybe, but she is now solid understanding of the major faults of the church, with little effort from me other than helping her find the essays. She resigned all of her callings, including VT, and life is good and Sundays have never been better.

[alas]

Some good ideas here. So, my two cents for what it is worth.

Rather than mark what seems like filler, which she will find offensive, mark positive inspirational things in one color, and mark things you have questions about in another color, so you can find them later and do research on those issues. Such as mark the problem of elephants in red, and do more research, both critical and apologetic.

You should honestly try to find the good in the book to show her you are trying to be fair, and you also show her that you want to give her every chance to find information to restore your testimony by researching the problem issues.

On the essays, you said you are afraid to destroy her faith. Well, share that with her. Tell her the purpose is to have her understand you, not to destroy her faith and you are not quite sure how to go about getting her to understand in a way that she will not feel under attack.

Maybe mark up the essays with the same system. Mark the stuff that is true and inspirational in blue, and things you have problems with in red and then the two of you do further research. Or maybe use a third color for things that feel off and you want more information and save the red for things that are untrue or misrepresented.

Make this a research project rather than just a rehash of scriptures you have read a dozen times.

[wtfluff]

On a subjective level, I have to say I felt internal tension and almost had a PTSD attack & flashback when visualizing whether I could do that with someone. I've read the BoM several times & even listened to the audio version (former TBM that I was at the time). I never, ever liked the book. I haven't tried reading it since I broke free, but the idea is almost traumatizing to me at this point.

If you ever really feel the need to "read" it again, this version is bearable:

https://mybookofmormonpodcast.com/

[Dravin]

She proposed reading the Book of Mormon together to begin “bringing me back to the light” (my snarky words but confirmed by her). After further discussion, she emphasized that she wanted it to be positive and uplifting.

Her emphasizing that she wants it to be a positive and uplifting would be a bit of a concern for me. If she's talking about the experience I'm supposed to have then she's dictating how I'm supposed to think and feel about the Book of Mormon while reading it and that's problematic. If she's talking about the experience she wants to have while reading it my concern would be that it's code for, "You can't disagree with, point out problems with, or bring up your concerns about what we're reading. You must agree with the idea that this is going to be a faith promoting experience and agree with me if I bring up how amazing the book is."

You of course likely know better what she means compared to some random guy on the internet, but my wife emphasizing such would trigger the above thoughts in me.

I’d love any advice from you fine folks based on theory or experience. How can I gently help her to understand just a bit of where I’m coming from? To be clear, I’m not seeking deconversion here because I think that’s nigh impossible. Also, how can I make an effort without going insane? That last one is admittedly tongue-in-cheek with more than a touch of sincerity…

Maybe instead of reading through the essays with her instead discuss your issues and be prepared to reference the essays if she challenges you or wants to know why you think X or Y is the case.

[TestimonyLost]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond! Oddly enough, I’ve been the one to bring up reading the Book of Mormon the past couple nights and she’s been the one with an excuse not to do it…

Advice worth what was paid for it...

Nice level-headed thoughts. Wait and see. I’ll probably focus on the Book of Mormon for now and see if she brings up the essays.

Last, she'll see right through your half assed attempts to read the BOM.

Ha! I really don’t know what she expects out of this. I’ve made it clear I don’t believe anything about the church (which, I assume she must understand to include the Book of Mormon), yet I think she envisions us discussing the faith of Nephi, the beauty of Lehi’s vision, and on and on and on until Moroni’s promise and then, bam, my inevitable reawakening. I dread dashing her hopes after months of studying together more than the study itself.

You’re ahead of me in your faith journey and your relationship with your wife, but something I’ve bookmarked as possible in future conversations with my husband is Bill Reel’s podcast “To our Loved Ones.” I think it outlines many issues in a very gentle way for a believer. If my recollection is accurate, it was almost apologetic in tone and nuanced. You might listen to it and use it at some point if you think it could be beneficial.

I like Linked’s suggestion to validate what she likes – after all, there’s good stuff in there, there’s just a lot of nonsense too. And show her passages from the BoM that trouble you… And move on without beating the issue too much – I find the the self-restraint to be the difficult part.

I’ve had that episode downloaded for a while. I’ll have to give it a listen.

The Book of Mormon is an interesting beast for me. It wasn’t a critical part of my faith crisis so I don’t have a lot of specific issues with it. I think I could get through it without too much negativity. In fact, that’s one of my worries (I worry a lot). We’ll spend all this time reading it, I won’t have much negative to say maybe even a lot of positive and she’ll wonder why I don’t just have a testimony again. I may have to make an effort to say negative things to keep it balanced…

On a subjective level, I have to say I felt internal tension and almost had a PTSD attack & flashback when visualizing whether I could do that with someone. I've read the BoM several times & even listened to the audio version (former TBM that I was at the time). I never, ever liked the book. I haven't tried reading it since I broke free, but the idea is almost traumatizing to me at this point.

The Book of Mormon doesn’t trigger me in the same way so I can survive that aspect. But I can relate to that feeling. If she’d proposed reading the general conference Ensign, I don’t think I could do it. It’s bad enough sitting through all ten hours once (yep, we’re one of those families).

I know reading the essays together would allow discussion, but what I did is have my wife read information herself.

I’ll definitely consider this. I don’t think she’ll read her way to unbelief, but it might be more productive than me tearing into the church every few sentences if we read it together.

Rather than mark what seems like filler, which she will find offensive, mark positive inspirational things in one color, and mark things you have questions about in another color, so you can find them later and do research on those issues…

You should honestly try to find the good in the book to show her you are trying to be fair, and you also show her that you want to give her every chance to find information to restore your testimony by researching the problem issues.

Maybe mark up the essays with the same system. Mark the stuff that is true and inspirational in blue, and things you have problems with in red and then the two of you do further research. Or maybe use a third color for things that feel off and you want more information and save the red for things that are untrue or misrepresented.

Make this a research project rather than just a rehash of scriptures you have read a dozen times.

I like the idea but I don’t know how to do it genuinely. I spent years working through my faith. I could certainly mark plenty of stuff I find problematic, but I don't know if I could genuinely "question" it. I think it would be more like "And there's another verse that shows this thing was written in the 1820s...and there's another...and another." You get the idea.

Her emphasizing that she wants it to be a positive and uplifting would be a bit of a concern for me. If she's talking about the experience I'm supposed to have then she's dictating how I'm supposed to think and feel about the Book of Mormon while reading it and that's problematic. If she's talking about the experience she wants to have while reading it my concern would be that it's code for, "You can't disagree with, point out problems with, or bring up your concerns about what we're reading. You must agree with the idea that this is going to be a faith promoting experience and agree with me if I bring up how amazing the book is."

I definitely had that concern when she suggested it. That’s why I proposed going through the essays as a balance. I also conceded that while I’d try to contribute to an uplifting, devotional reading of the Book of Mormon, I couldn’t guarantee that I’d never say anything negative.