Contradictory feelings

[LostGirl]

A big part of my move away from "TBM-ness" has been the realisation that I do not require anyone to tell me how to be a good person. That my life is better as I simply seek to live a life where I consider my impact on others and find small ways to improve the lives of others. Where I try to live a good life not to live up to religious ideals or even to become more Christlike but because it feels like the right thing to do, makes me feel good, and has a positive impact. Perhaps it is self righteous but I have felt like I have been free to become a better person.

As I stray further from the tbm mind meld though I feel a conundrum as I sit through church meetings. On the one hand I have felt this personal improvement but then as I hear church talks I struggle not to have negative feelings towards the speakers.

I try to remember that once I probably said the same sorts of things and told the same sorts of stories, but it does not ease the frustration that I feel. I also try to move towards feelings of indifference but have not been able to get there.

Has anyone else felt like this and been able to mentally resolve it?

[Mad Jax]

As I stray further from the tbm mind meld though I feel a conundrum as I sit through church meetings. On the one hand I have felt this personal improvement but then as I hear church talks I struggle not to have negative feelings towards the speakers.

There's nothing wrong with reacting negatively to something phony. Even as a TBM I let myself have this response because it felt so dishonest not to have it. I told myself it was the gift of discernment, and that I should be wary of the tares among the wheat. I considered that my position might be considered self righteous, but I just couldn't bring myself to care.

[PalmSprings]

A big part of my move away from "TBM-ness" has been the realisation that I do not require anyone to tell me how to be a good person. That my life is better as I simply seek to live a life where I consider my impact on others and find small ways to improve the lives of others. Where I try to live a good life not to live up to religious ideals or even to become more Christlike but because it feels like the right thing to do, makes me feel good, and has a positive impact. Perhaps it is self righteous but I have felt like I have been free to become a better person.

Not self-righteous at all. What you have described is true "free agency." In short the ability to make decisions based on your own judgement.

As I stray further from the tbm mind meld though I feel a conundrum as I sit through church meetings. On the one hand I have felt this personal improvement but then as I hear church talks I struggle not to have negative feelings towards the speakers.

I try to remember that once I probably said the same sorts of things and told the same sorts of stories, but it does not ease the frustration that I feel. I also try to move towards feelings of indifference but have not been able to get there.

Has anyone else felt like this and been able to mentally resolve it?

Personally those negative feelings and frustrations have never gone away 100%. In part it's a self defense mechanism warning me not to go back. However I will say I mostly feel indifferent now. The way I dealt with it was to stop going to church. This gave me the time to heal. All of a sudden I started enjoying life and learning things I missed out on. Because once the realization sunk in that there was so much extra time not being wasted at church, I was free to do things in a much more fulfilling way.

[Culper Jr.]

I try to remember that once I probably said the same sorts of things and told the same sorts of stories, but it does not ease the frustration that I feel. I also try to move towards feelings of indifference but have not been able to get there.

Has anyone else felt like this and been able to mentally resolve it?

Yes, I feel like this every week. I am stuck for the foreseeable future attending church, so I have been trying to find ways to deal with it. I am a over a year into my disaffection and I have been really angry until pretty recently. Every time I walked into the church building I felt a dreadful pall come over me and anything people said tended to hit me wrong. I loathed my stake president especially, as he is the typical Morridor lawyer corporate ladder climber type that represents everything I dislike about Mormon leadership.

I am just now getting through the anger part, I think, which is just a time thing. I guess I'm just tired of being mad, and maybe I have been disaffected for long enough that I'm getting more used to it perhaps? Some weeks are better than others. We had a ward and stake goals 5th Sunday meeting that really was a trial last week, because I hate that sort of thing; but I just try to really focus on the people, and try to find humor in it all. My initial distaste was replaced with humor when I thought about how after all the effort they put into this rah-rah session with the cute handouts with all the different fonts, it would be largely forgotten in a week, and will have had virtually zero impact.

Now I basically try to view church with a detached third party view, like I'm studying a cult by living among them. It's funny to me the different personality dynamics and how so much of church life is based on one-upmanship and ladder climbing. It's interesting to see how JS and BY's control mechanisms pervade the church even now.

I've also learned to keep a lot of this to myself and limit my negative comments to my TBM DW. I used to joke around about some ridiculousness, and she would feel attacked. I realized it does more harm than good; she is well aware of how I feel and I think she considers things more objectively when she doesn't feel compelled to defend them.

[Can of Worms]

I've been thinking about something related this past week. My two grandfathers were very different. One was very TBM - so dedicated to his callings that he wasn't present for his kids ordinations, etc. His life was focussed on living the letter of the law and serving the COB. My other grandfather went inactive in his teens but supported his family in church and life. He would go to church for grandchilren's talks, drove his wife to church meetings and VT, and helped anyone who needed it. As a tradesman, he wouldn't charge people who he felt couldn't afford it - always telling clients he would mail a bill but then never did. He saved for years to take grandma on their dream vacation but gave the money away numerous times to people who needed it (ie. Family with medical bills, etc). Because he smoked and didn't go to church, my other grandparents looked down on him and discounted all the good he did.

I think where I'm going with this is agreeing with you - in the world of TBMs the only good works that count are those that directly impact the machine that is COB. Even the community projects the church organizes locally are more about PR than about Christlike service. This may be different in the MorCor but where I live, the LDS community still has the wagons tightly circled.

[Newme]

Now I basically try to view church with a detached third party view, like I'm studying a cult by living among them. It's funny to me the different personality dynamics and how so much of church life is based on one-upmanship and ladder climbing. It's interesting to see how JS and BY's control mechanisms pervade the church even now.

I've also learned to keep a lot of this to myself and limit my negative comments to my TBM DW. I used to joke around about some ridiculousness, and she would feel attacked. I realized it does more harm than good; she is well aware of how I feel and I think she considers things more objectively when she doesn't feel compelled to defend them.

I like that approach (studying it from 3rd party view) and when I think of it in that way, it isn't as upsetting.

Also, as you implied, I'm going to try harder not to vent to my TBM DH - it does cause more harm than good.

[LostGirl]

I like the idea of viewing the ward from an anthropological viewpoint, I will try that.

[MoPag]

but I just try to really focus on the people, and try to find humor in it all. My initial distaste was replaced with humor when I thought about how after all the effort they put into this rah-rah session with the cute handouts with all the different fonts, it would be largely forgotten in a week, and will have had virtually zero impact.

Culper Jr, every time I read one of your posts I read it in Archer's voice in my head. Finding the humor in how the church operates is great advice!

Lots of great advice on this thread.

I would add: remember that everyone at church is a victim of the church in some way. They are the ones still doing mental gymnastics to make it al work. (Remember how exhausting that was?) Some/a lot of them are a part of the marginalized groups and they are carrying that unnecessary weight of being "less than" around with them all the time. Keeping this in mind helps me have compassion for them when they start saying stupid TBM sh*t.

Still, what ever our coping mechanisms are, we will probably still feel some level of frustration and conflict. And like the previous posters have said it is important not to channel that frustration towards out TBM loved ones. That's why I love NOM so much! Perfect place to vent.

[Corsair]

Have you ever talked to a police officer or fire fighter who has been at their job for many years? They often seem a bit calloused to the suffering of others. This is a natural emotional defense of rescue workers who firmly know that they can't save everyone, and some days they can't save anyone. My faith transition was not at all as significant as the emotional and physical struggles of a veteran police officer. But I can sympathize how I simply cannot save the majority of my close family members or friends. The LDS church works for a lot of people even when the cultural requirements are not working very well for those same people.

This is a practical discussion for long term association with the LDS church. I admittedly feel a bit condescending towards a lot of speakers and teachers when I attend my ward. I have to summon Christlike charity towards them since the largely "know not what they do." Last week I partially derailed the Sunday School tithing lesson although the doctrinal inertia still ended up in all the cultural cliches that we usually hate (pay on gross, expect blessings, etc). I looked around knowing that so many of these good people could use a little budgetary relaxation in their life, especially the row of elderly widows in the back of the room. I have some close friends who are out of work and I know how they faithfully pay tithing. But virtually nothing I could say to any of these good people is going to provide the financial or spiritual comfort they need. I can only help where they will allow me to help.

As others have pointed out, I often treat church like a slightly boring anthropological situation. I try to drop enough heretical hints so that people will come to me when their faith crisis is brewing. But the focus of my life is simply not the LDS church any longer. I have better things to build instead of this institutional church. It's an unfortunate and protective side effect that my feelings are thus not entirely charitable when I attend church.

[RubinHighlander]

I like the idea of viewing the ward from an anthropological viewpoint, I will try that.

This worked for me. It became an interesting study of human sociology, sometimes I'd poke the snake just a little to see the reaction, but not too controversial to cause a ruckus. It offered some reward to sometimes call people out on an untruth in GD or HPG, albeit in a strategic manner.

I like your two key points: 1-Finging out how much better life is and how altruistic it can be without all the LDS BS on top of it. 2-Being emphatic to the true koolaid believers as they march to the beat of the drum, while trying not to be angered as they spew forth the untruths of their dogma. The first can help offset the latter, but it's obviously a big challenge. My remembrances of my TBM past help a lot with empathy toward the locals. My anger has not waned much toward the COB that is trying to keep it's faithful in line with their policies and mundane droning over the GC pulpit, Ensign and correlated manuals.

Ultimately, it became too much of a burden to hang out in the TBM tribe and stay off the project list through lack of participation. It kind of follows the two masters parable. DW and I found too much value in enjoying our sabbath outside the chapel and we had to cut the ties. There have been no regrets. We first had the joy of being mentally freed from thy tyranny of guilt, but the dreadful slog to the chapel increased over time. Finally emailing local leaders with an official resignation was a mental and physical joy, liberating our time, talents and money.