Kids' Ordinances

[TestimonyLost]

I need some NOM therapy. Unexpectedly, my wife and I have continued the back and forth discussion on my faith transition. She still doesn’t get it at all but the fact that the dialogue continues gives me hope that maybe one day she can accept me as a nonbeliever.

I’ve got a major stumbling block left in my own mind and heart that stops me from pulling the trigger on disconnecting from the church—my children’s ordinations. I baptized my daughter recently and while there was a lot of anxiety for me over the event, there were many warm happy feelings too. I liked being there for my daughter, I liked the way my wife looked at me that day, I liked all the extended family around me cheering me on as a worthy and faithful patriarch of my family. And every time I thought of someone else baptizing my daughter in my place, my heart just ached.

None of these feelings are new to me but they are accentuated by the recent ordinance and the fact that I’m closer to stepping back from the church than I’ve ever been. Keep in mind I have a bundle of young kids so there are ordinances aplenty in the coming years and they’re spaced out enough that the kid’s ordinances will bridge perfectly to my kids getting sealed some day. There will never be a “good” time to break way.

So my questions to you. For those who stepped back from the church with kids left to baptize, ordain, etc., how did you come to that decision and how did you ultimately make peace with it? Any regrets for that decision? For those who chose/choose to stay for this reason, has it been worth it? If you haven't had to fact this, any advice for me is still appreciated!

Thanks.

EDIT: To be clear, my children would still be baptized and ordained to the priesthood. It just wouldn't be by me. It would be one or another of my TBM in-laws who I generally get along with but I cringe at the thought of them standing in my plae.

[Lithium Sunset]

Okay, first off, things were very different for me. I always had to rely on family, missionaries, or ward members to do ordinances because my husband was a non-member. In fact he and the boys were baptized at the same time (in the Black Sea.. which would be so cool under different circumstances) so when I got out- we all got out together and everyone was baptized.
When I was inactive, that is all I wanted- both boys to be baptized, mind you I was inactive but still very mentally "in".
I am not 100 percent sure how I would feel now if one wasn't baptized, but I suspect I would feel very torn. I'm agnostic now but I am still glad it's done... there is a peace about it.

If you can mentally endure it, I think I would stay the course... just for the baptisms. This for the children and your wife's sake. A baptism is recognized in most Christian religions if that is some comfort.
I do not believe anything done in the temple is worth staying in for.

Hang in there, you're in a tough spot to be sure.

[crossmyheart]

I only have two children and I am female. Different, but same...

I went inactive 5 years ago, DH is borderline TBM/NOM. After I left, I have had to put up with nonstop family pestering about whether I would allow DH to baptize the kids. My view is to allow the baptism, but teach my point of view at home. It was important to my DH and my family so both children have been baptized in the last couple of years. I made significant effort to include multiple events associated with the baptisms so that the weekend wasn't just about the Church. But by all outward accounts, we followed the prescribed baptism routine.

During this time, we have kept the major details of my disaffection from the bishopric and just used the "we are very busy" line whenever callings and nosy members come around. Slowly over the last few years DH has come to enjoy second Saturdays and an occasional beer, even though he still carries belief in the basic doctrine. So when the baptisms neared, we attended regularly in the few months leading up to each baptism and then went inactive right after. When I do attend church, it is sacrament only. If I have to attend any other meetings, I am surfing NOM or other sites.

In answer to your question, despite the fact that I no longer believe any of it, I still see it as a tribe, as a family tradition, a rite of passage. Most of our families are Mormon. I want my kids to still be accepted as part of the tribe by them. My point of view may be flawed, but it works for us. For now, while they are young, this works. I don't expect my kids to make it into YM/YW- they will definitely not fit in the prescribed mold by then. I am working too hard on their critical thinking skills for that to happen.

Caveat- ask me again in a year or two and I may have a different take on this strategy.

[alas]

A few more years down the road, so, perhaps the wisdom of hind sight. I wish I had put up more of a fight to keep my children out of the church.

I was an active in closet nonbeliever when my children were small. I felt that even though the church was not true, it was still basically good. And coming out against the church just didn't seem like an option as far as my marriage went, so I opted for staying in the closet about my beliefs.

So, thirty plus years later, one daughter is a self esteem damaged Jack Mormon. The church just was harmful to her sense of worth, and moving with the military didn't help any. She still sort of believes, even though she doesn't follow anything she was taught by the church as far as sexual morals and WoW, so that leaves her in the self worth damaging position of not living what she still believes. She also failed to learn moderation with alcohol, or to think of it is realistic terms rather than just the moral terms she rebelled against. SoI hear reports of her staggering drunk. She also has medical issues which she should see alcohol, not as a moral issue, but a health issue.

The second daughter is lesbian, need I say more? She and her wife resigned from the church with the mass resignation over the policy of exclusion and are doing better. But her wife had a really hard time as she stayed a believer longer.

And my third is still believing and active. But he had the guilt issues that are normal with the sexual repression taught in the church.

So, two of the three and maybe all three would be better off if I had taught them more of what I believe and not pretended to be a believer. They would have had an example of rejecting the damaging aspects of Mormonism. But I was essentially too chicken.

[TestimonyLost]

I edited the OP to make it clear that my children would still be baptized if I left the church, it would just be by someone other than me. It seemed like that might have been unclear.

Thanks for the responses so far. Good stuff to think on. I'll admit in writing my post, I didn't even think of the female side of this equation. I'd like to blame the church's indoctrination for such blatantly sexist thinking, but I've been mentally out for years so that excuse is wearing thin.

[Linked]

I am heading for the same situation, my oldest is still a couple years from baptism, but at this point it looks like that will happen because DW is very in. I have been contemplating a few different strategies.

1. Continue to do the bare minimum to be able to perform the ordinances myself. I don't like this one, but it seems most likely for me. I feel like a coward doing it, but it rocks my marriage boat the least.
2. Be open and honest and lose the ability to perform the ordinances and let someone else do it. I dream of doing this, but in reality it would probably leave me divorced and it's not worth it.
3. Similar to 1, but there is a possibility that I could be largely open and honest and still perform the ordinances. This is heavily dependent on leadership roulette. But getting comfortable with nuanced answers to belief questions and a dash of Corsair's experiment to test the spirit of discernment could give you the best of both worlds.
4. Similar to 2, but without giving up all input in the matter. Ask a relative or close friend to be a godfather for each of your children. Someone you look up to as a good example of what you respect in a TBM, and someone that you know respects and loves you and your family.

[Raylan Givens]

I am heading for the same situation, my oldest is still a couple years from baptism, but at this point it looks like that will happen because DW is very in. I have been contemplating a few different strategies.

1. Continue to do the bare minimum to be able to perform the ordinances myself. I don't like this one, but it seems most likely for me. I feel like a coward doing it, but it rocks my marriage boat the least

I am thinking about this topic in great detail. If I were to try and baptize my kids, my DW would be furious. She would see it as lying and quite dishonest. I view baptism as a right of passage of sorts.

Lately, I have had more hope. I think my DW is ready to start looking for something different for us. I don't think she likes the idea of us being on a different page. Cross our fingers.

No easy answer to this other than to chat with leadership and put it in their hands, they get to be the bad guy if they tell you no.

[Emower]

So I have surrendered that right by being up front about my beliefs. My son is 2 years away from it. I am not going to make it an issue. If he wants/DW wants, it can happen with Grandpa or one of my brothers or something. My view is this.
All I want is for my Wife to understand me, the issues, and where I am coming from in relation to those issues. If she still wants to be a TBM after that I am all for it and we can make a mixed faith marriage work. But I need her to understand me and feel comfortable with me. I am not giving her that option if I do not make clear what I believe. That is why I have stepped back. I still go to support her, but I am very upfront with the fact that I dont believe.

[shadow]

I've gone through it twice recently, and if things stay how they are church-wise, have three more in my future. I have been more upfront with my wife about my beliefs, and she knows that I only attend church to support her and be with the family. I haven't wanted to do priesthood ordinances, and I don't think she would want me to, either.

My dad baptized and confirmed both of my sons. We had to travel to Utah from Seattle to do this. I didn't really have an issue with my dad doing it because my sons were excited for their grandpa to do it, even though they did have some questions why I couldn't/wouldn't. Because of the church's worship of bureaucracy and authority, my mom's bishop had to attend each baptism to preside. He also took it upon himself to conduct the meetings.

Baptism went fine, and I was happy that my boys seemed happy. What really put a sour taste in my mouth was the confirmation. Once the baptism was done and my sons and my dad were back, the bishop go up to invite all "worthy" priesthood holders to come up and join the circle. I've had a really hard time with this common characterization of the priesthood circle as being "worthy" to be there. Inherently unworthy are any seated males, children, and women, obviously.

We had a new baby boy born in March. My wife wants to have a baby blessing, and the plan is to do it when we visit Utah this summer for a family reunion. I guess because of the status quo that has been established with these baptisms, I wasn't really consulted about any details of the baby blessing. I'm having a much harder time with this. It's not a saving ordinance. I'm feeling very angry about being excluded from this. I wish that my wife would also feel angry about being excluded from this. I've mentioned in passing that I think that we should both be able to bless our child under our authority as parents, but that was a non-starter.

The last priesthood ordinance I participated in was the blessing of my 4th child. It was actually a really nice experience. I didn't have any religious experience, but I did feel very connected to my daughter. I like the idea of expressed your hopes and wishes for a new baby in a ceremony that welcomes the child to the community. My language was intentionally not the standard mormon baby blessing, but it was an expression of my sincere desires for my daughter. She was born really early and had spent a long time in the NICU, so I was really grateful to be able to be there with her, healthy, and to welcome her into our family in front of our community.

We weren't sure if we were going to have another baby or not. I was leaning more towards being done with my wife leaning more towards having 1 more. It's shameful that one of my considerations, at least to a small degree, was that I had been able to give the baby blessing to all of my children, but by that point, was out of the priesthood game. I knew that I would be excluded if we had another, and I didn't want that.

I also want to note that I am not the only one excluded here. Women are excluded by definition. This is wrong and really colors how I see all priesthood ordinances now. The tiniest thread of my faith remained when Ordain Women came on the scene. The church's response disabused me any faith that I had left in the church.

So while I might feel hurt and excluded, and knowing that my wife and kids will still be attending church for the time being, my conspicuous absence in the ceremonies is already causing questions for my children that open the door to broader church discussions. I find comfort and hope that at least they will be better informed as they reach adulthood and make their own decisions with respect to the church.

[Just This Guy]

When DD #1 was born, I was inactive and DW is semi active. We ended up having my FIL doing the name and blessing. At the time i was off the opinion that the LDS church was in a state of apostasy. So i didn't consider the ordinance to have any weight. I allowed it because it was important to DW.

A few years later, DS turned 8. by that time both DW and I were completely out. Together we decided that we did not think that baptism for him was appropriate. He is way too young to fully understand the church and to be able to make an informed decision as to what he is joining. Heck, he has trouble telling if movies and TV are real or fake, how can he really know good from evil outside what he is told? We decided that once is it 18, he can be baptized if he wants to. We can't and won't stop him. By that time he will be able to make an informed decision.

[crossmyheart]

We had a new baby boy born in March. My wife wants to have a baby blessing, and the plan is to do it when we visit Utah this summer for a family reunion. I guess because of the status quo that has been established with these baptisms, I wasn't really consulted about any details of the baby blessing. I'm having a much harder time with this. It's not a saving ordinance. I'm feeling very angry about being excluded from this. I wish that my wife would also feel angry about being excluded from this. I've mentioned in passing that I think that we should both be able to bless our child under our authority as parents, but that was a non-starter.

When my babies were little- I had a Visiting Teaching companion who was a very forward thinking feminist. She integrated multiple religious beliefs and practices in her life. She planted the idea in me that I can bless my babies whenever I want under my own authority. So I did. Many times. Although my blessings were not made in front of friends and family, they were heartfelt and deeply connecting to the hopes and dreams I had for my little ones. It was truly a pivotal moment for me to take on my own authority over my own children. I have to admit I churlishly enjoyed watching my DH bless my son at church knowing I have already given him my own blessing at home the night before. It deflated any anxiety I had about the whole pomp and circumstance.

My DH still gives them blessings from time to time- but he recognizes us as a team- and has asked me to participate when there is need for "laying on of hands".