NOM

My best friend former counselor in the stakepresidency got told by SP
Shut up, or get excommunicated.

He told people He does not believe anymore that Christ is in the Church, that businessmen and lawyers now run it.

I posted on my own FB

First they went after my acquaintances, now they are going after my friends, soon I expect them at my own door.
Shall I go quietly, or shall I weaponize all info I have??

See if they bite

obviously weaponize - I'm just so damn curious to see what you've got up your sleeve.

That said I can see why you're friend is being given an ultimatum - a house that is divided against itself cannot stand.

Any club will divorce a member if that member appears to be damaging the club.

So is your friend coming across as anti (seeking to destroy) or progressive (seeking to bring about reform from within)?

I also understand that progressive IS anti to most TBM

If I was more open about my doubts I'm sure I would face the same problem. I've often pondered if I would resign quietly, or try to make a stand for what I believe is true in a church court. The LDS church has such a disingenuous relationship with truth.

When this purge of non-conformist thinkers is complete, which messengers will they shoot then? Seems like the Dutch Resistance is alive and well. Good luck to you and your friend - if similar events were to transpire against me, I suspect that I would go down firing.

Do not go gentle into that good night...

Time to put on that orange arm band of resistance!

I'm sure y'all know my vote.

Make sure your name shows up in the history books.

I hope you will remember that those of us on this board sometimes give advice that we would like, not what is necessarily best for the other person. For myself, I would sometimes like for SOMEONE ELSE to stand up to the church and tell them the real truth. But, notice that I would like someone else to do that and I am not doing it myself. My situation makes it so getting myself exed would hurt my believing husband and son, not me. So for the people I love, I keep a low profile and cheer on anyone who seems stupid enough to stand up to the oncoming tank.

So, realistically, most people who try to change the church by standing up to the oncoming tank get run over by the tank. So, no matter how much amo you think you have, I doubt you can shoot the tank driver, and even if you can shoot this tank driver, what about the hundreds of tanks behind it? The real people who need to be taken out are the ones in Salt Lake City, and I doubt you have the kind of long range ballistic missile that can reach them.

So, do you want to go down shooting? If yes, Great! You might take out some of the church machine on your way. I mean, watching the church mow down Kate Kelly cause many to defect and run for the lines of the resistance.

If you want to quietly resign, that is good too. Also keeping a low profile and just letting the whole church machine drive past you is good too.

My point is don't let us talk you into anything that you are not ready for or will hurt friends or family.

2bizE wrote: ↑

Thu May 18, 2017 8:38 am

Do not go gentle into that good night...

Right on. Now is not the time to tiptoe through the tulips when there is a dike to plug!

Meilingkie,

Have you seen this blog post: www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/ ... flections/? Any comments about it?

I don't know what is best for you. I like sticking with friends, but make sure you know what your goal is and how your actions will get you to your goal.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑

Thu May 18, 2017 8:28 am

When this purge of non-conformist thinkers is complete, which messengers will they shoot then? Seems like the Dutch Resistance is alive and well. Good luck to you and your friend - if similar events were to transpire against me, I suspect that I would go down firing.

Well said!

You Europeans do have more than your share of witch hunts and roundings-up.

It's fascinating when an entity becomes hostile simply because one of its members stops believing in its proclaimed power. Nothing shows more clearly how imaginary that power is than when their only option is to kick you out of the club that you no longer believe in.

Good luck, Meilingkie!

blazerb wrote: ↑

Thu May 18, 2017 10:55 am

Meilingkie,

Have you seen this blog post: www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/ ... flections/? Any comments about it?

I don't know what is best for you. I like sticking with friends, but make sure you know what your goal is and how your actions will get you to your goal.

The link did not seem to work.

Each person here (and all throughout the church) is in a unique spot in terms of where their families stand with the church, whether their very employment could be at risk and many other variables. Do what feels right for you, and what works for your own situation. You were very brave to do the podcast with John Dehlin, and it was a great interview.

I can't suggest what's best for you, but my personal comfort zone was to resign by being very blunt with local leaders. I told them everything that bothered me, and it accomplished what I wanted, which was to cause them to think. They are my contemporaries and had known me for many years, and knew I had always been considered strong in my testimony. My only goal was to give someone a local wakeup call, to give a face to the word "apostate." I also wanted to retain my friendships, because our relationships are such that they will often ask questions and (recently) engage in brief discussions about the issues. So I guess I am a grassroots apostate.

They all know I have resigned, and when they ask, I answer honestly. Guess what? In just the past month, literally, THREE separate friends who live nowhere near each other have approached me with questions. Baby steps...

Here is the proper link, I hope:

http://www.timesandseasons.org/index.ph ... flections/

blazerb wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2017 12:38 pm

Here is the proper link, I hope:

http://www.timesandseasons.org/index.ph ... flections/

Whenever members are abandoned in such a manner, are they ever redirected to a spiritual home at another faith tradition when travel to an alternative LDS unit is not feasible? I know I would want one that served Belgian waffles.

I haven't seen Meilingkie for a while. I hope he's doing okay.

Me Too. Are you OK out there M?