If you don't believe in a God who intervenes in our lives, how do you make peace with big life decisions and changes?

[trophywife26.2]

I believe either there is no God, or He or She doesn't intervene in our lives. Ultimately I don't believe in a God that will answer prayers like,
"Yes, take that job."
"No, don't marry that person."
"Yes, do have more kids."
ETC.

There are innumerable ways in which this belief change is a huge relief to me. I don't have to find God's one true purpose for my life in order to be able to consider my life a success. Wow! What a great thing!

On the other hand, whatever I do, whatever choices I make: It's. All. On. Me.
And me alone.

We're making a lot of big life changes. Moving (still UT), new jobs for my spouse and I both, putting our children in a day care/preschool setting instead of being with a SAHP, etc.

I used to be able to pray about these things, fast, go to the temple, etc. all to find peace with decisions. Sure, I could do some of these practices still despite a lack of belief in order to find peace, but the behaviors would not bring me the relief and comfort. The relief and comfort I got was from feeling like God approved of my path, my choices, I was on the right path.

Now, no matter how much I pray or fast or even if I went to the temple, I don't believe there is a right path so that surety and comfort will never come. At least not comfort from being approved of by God.

Any words of comfort or advice for someone like me struggling to know if I'm making the best choices in my life?

[MalcolmVillager]

I agree with you about the lack of omnipotent intervention (vending machine god). I don't have a great answer for you. Recently my I year old daughter has been diagnosed with a difficult form of arthritis that in time will likely have some long term impacts and take away so much normalcy. It is heart breaking.

Of course there are the thoughts of, if I were only more believing or if I had power in my PH it could have been different.

It is really hard on my wife who knows what I am going through and is heart broken for our DD.

It seems almost nihilist but I have some glimmer of hope for something better.

[redjay]

Malcolm - sorry to hear of your difficulty. I too hold on to hope (both in this life and in the next - as mormonism does not have the monopoly on that), but I won't pretend to share or know your pain.

Trophywife - as for knowing if you are making the right decisions: Most of the world seems to do just fine without the Mormon God telling them what to do.

[LostGirl]

In terms of making decisions I have come to realise that often there is not one right decision, and every path has advantages and disadvantages.

I try not to look back and second guess what could have been but rather be at peace with what is, and if I know I made a mistake, take steps to change things. This is easier said than done of course and although I have regrets I also know regret can't change the past but it can inform the future.

I even try to apply this to my life in the church. It is easy to wish that I had not been born into this but in reality it has probably brought much good into my life and how am I to know whether my life would have been better or worse without it? All I can do is try to make peace with where I am now and use my best judgement to move forward.

[Nonny]

If you don't believe that God gives you direction, then it has been you all along. Hang onto that thought. It has always been you! You are capable of doing this, so believe in yourself and your own good sense.

One technique I use is to imagine having a conversation with a god or infinite being. As I ask the questions in my mind I also imagine the answers, which reveal what my subconscious wants me to know. It's sort of a guided meditation I guess.

[Dravin]

Worry doesn't change things. Oh, it can motivate one to do things that can change things, but as long as it remains worry without action it's mostly pointless. Some things we just can't change no matter how hard we might wish we could, stewing in what ifs, or what could have been just isn't fruitful. For instance, I could sit here and lament that I didn't leave the church earlier, but lamenting doesn't make me a time machine. I cannot undo the past, and it's pointless to invest energy in doing so. Now this is obviously easier said than done, and it doesn't really apply to things that you can change. If you could potentially go back to your old job or you are currently debating taking a new one then you do need to invest in the decision and thinking things through is in general a good thing, in cases when the decision is still up in the air I just ask myself, "Have things changed?" While it's great to reevaluate decisions in view of new information or considerations, getting stuck in a cycle where you churn over the decision over and over with nothing new to consider is of limited utility. So before I open that particular can of worms I make sure and ask myself if there is a point to doing so, am I considering something new I didn't previously that might change my conclusion? Or am I just stirring the pot to feel like I'm doing something?

If it's any consolation, loosing the comfort of being able to lay things at God's feet was something I missed keenly when I lost my belief in god. It took time to become comfortable with uncertainty, to simply accept it as a part of being alive rather than the big scary bugaboo a reliance on god to give his stamp of approval on all my decisions had built up.

[oliver_denom]

Now, no matter how much I pray or fast or even if I went to the temple, I don't believe there is a right path so that surety and comfort will never come. At least not comfort from being approved of by God.

Any words of comfort or advice for someone like me struggling to know if I'm making the best choices in my life?

What I have to say really depends on whether or not you find the truth to be comforting. There are a million little lies we could tell ourselves that might ease over some anxiety, but I'm of the opinion that this is only a short term fix. When it comes to anxiety, which I seem to have a lot of, the only way out is through, meaning that it can only be conquered by being faced, suffered, and overcome. Avoiding or hiding from the sources of our anxiety only causes them to lay dormant and then bite us in the ass when we least expect it.

So what's the truth?

The truth is that it's highly unlikely that you have made or will make in the future the very best choices possible. What's the "best" choice? Let's assume it's the decision or sets of decisions which would lead to our happiest possible life. Since we can't predict the future, and human beings are incredibly bad at knowing what will make us happy, these handicaps really make it difficult to pick the best of all possible choices. Even when we make "the best" choice, some external chaos which we couldn't predict may swoop down and completely trample on our sand castle. It's impossible to know. For all we know, the worst mistake you ever made might have inadvertently saved your life. Existence is a mass of chaos, and holding on to the belief that we can control it may be a significant cause of the "struggling".

That's point number one, we can't know. We play the odds of success and hope that we're right. Two people in identical circumstances making the same choice can end up in radically different places. We do our best, but sometimes shit happens.

But if life is so full of randomness and chaos, then how does anyone manage happiness? Well, it's not as if all of life is complete anarchy. If there wasn't some degree of predictability, then making good decisions wouldn't be possible at all. For example, what if there were no laws governing where lightning could strike? We might think we're making the best decision for avoiding a strike by not golfing in a rain storm, but if there's nothing governing where it could happen, then choosing to watch T.V. in your basement would be equally as dangerous. Order and predictability exist in places where human beings create order and predictability. If life seems chaotic, then imposing rules and order upon yourself will calm things down. This is what the church is really good at, and it's no wonder that Mormon life is a god send to many who lack structure in their lives.

That's point number two. Life is mostly normal that's punctuated by the unusual. You deal with the unusual so you can return to the normal, but that's not possible if you don't have some sort of base line normality. It doesn't matter what that normality is, just as long as it can remain consistent and it can create a bubble of predictability. On occasion shit will hit the fan and returning to normal becomes a relative phrase. Sometimes we have to adjust the baseline.

So we never know the outcome of our choices, we play the odds, and we do the best we can do to create a bubble of predictability around us. And it's tough, because this a situation which guarantees we'll make mistakes, and there's no one else we can blame. So what do we do if we can't KNOW? What do we do if we can't deflect blame? Here's what I do. I try to be very forgiving to others in the hope that they'll be forgiving towards me. I accept my mistakes, learn from them, and try to do better. Hopefully, if I'm sincere, I can forgive myself and move on.

That's point number three. You can't know if you're doing the right thing, so do what you feel is right, then forgive and ask forgiveness. Learn from your missteps and try to do better.

[Linked]

I believe either there is no God, or He or She doesn't intervene in our lives. Ultimately I don't believe in a God that will answer prayers like,
"Yes, take that job."
"No, don't marry that person."
"Yes, do have more kids."
ETC.

There are innumerable ways in which this belief change is a huge relief to me. I don't have to find God's one true purpose for my life in order to be able to consider my life a success. Wow! What a great thing!

On the other hand, whatever I do, whatever choices I make: It's. All. On. Me.
And me alone.

We're making a lot of big life changes. Moving (still UT), new jobs for my spouse and I both, putting our children in a day care/preschool setting instead of being with a SAHP, etc.

I used to be able to pray about these things, fast, go to the temple, etc. all to find peace with decisions. Sure, I could do some of these practices still despite a lack of belief in order to find peace, but the behaviors would not bring me the relief and comfort. The relief and comfort I got was from feeling like God approved of my path, my choices, I was on the right path.

Now, no matter how much I pray or fast or even if I went to the temple, I don't believe there is a right path so that surety and comfort will never come. At least not comfort from being approved of by God.

Any words of comfort or advice for someone like me struggling to know if I'm making the best choices in my life?

I'm sorry to hear you are having a hard time. Big decision times are tough.

Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I have found that freedom from having to seek approval is more comforting than the times where I felt I had approval. My comfort comes from a bit of nihlistic thinking that ultimately what I do doesn't matter at all, so I'm not going to beat myself up over my choices made in good faith that don't work out. I do beat myself up if I am being a jerk, because that's not who I want to be.

Another thing is that even though your choices are all on you, the consequences aren't necessarily. TBM life isn't much different in that regard, TBMs do what they feel is God's will and live with the consequences both good and bad. As long as you are true to your personal morals and doing your best be happy with who you are and what you've done. Like Oliver said, sometimes poop happens regardless of the plan. Do your best and learn from your mistakes. Enjoy your freedom of choice and conscience.

[Corsair]

Any words of comfort or advice for someone like me struggling to know if I'm making the best choices in my life?

There are a couple of upsides to this existential dilemma that will not be appreciated by the believing spouse. For the health of your relationship I would not bring them up to your believing spouse, but they are quietly helpful for a struggling individual.

First, think back to a time where you did make a good decision. If you are worried about the lack of divine communication now, then you can take comfort in your personal good judgement for all of the other times in your life where fortune favored you. Congratulations on some successes in your mortality. It was actually you all along. I'm not trying to disprove God here. But I suspect that God prefers that we summon more resilience and strength inside ourselves so we can be the divine help for others.

Second, consider all the times of bad decisions you have seen in the lives of the believers all around you. Divorce, failed businesses, personal tragedy, and job loss affect everyone. I won't claim that it is in equal measure or fair in any cosmic sense. Were all those bad decisions caused by impure thoughts or some other less savory sinning by your faithful friends? The problem of evil is treated with pretty thin, self-serving logic in the LDS world. Good outcomes deliver all thanks to God, not human luck or resilience. Bad outcomes drop all the guilt on that sinner who watches "Game of Thrones".

Third, I recommend a Stoic attitude in the face of uncertainty. It's a western version of the Zen Buddhist idea of impermanence.Take joy in your success and make plans for the bad outcome. It's like philosophical insurance. Accept the fact that bad outcomes are going to occur and simply make the best plans you can with the help of best judgement and study you can do now.

Finally, be prepared to forgive yourself when poor decisions get made. All we can do is move forward. We will never be able to turn back our mortal clocks or know for certain what another path might have brought into our lives. But we can live humbly and kindly while moving forward in any circumstances.

[trophywife26.2]

Thank you so much for all your comments. It is really comforting to realize it was me all along. Thank you for reading and responding. I mentally say a prayer every night asking to be wrong about God as I lay down to sleep and the existential/nihlistic worries creep into my mind, but He/She never tells me I am wrong.

Change is hard, but without change there is no growth. I want to grow. Life isn't perfect and I will make mistakes and that is okay.

[Give It Time]

If you don't believe that God gives you direction, then it has been you all along. Hang onto that thought. It has always been you! You are capable of doing this, so believe in yourself and your own good sense.

One technique I use is to imagine having a conversation with a god or infinite being. As I ask the questions in my mind I also imagine the answers, which reveal what my subconscious wants me to know. It's sort of a guided meditation I guess.

Something very close to this. I used to call it the still, small voice. Now, I call it inner wisdom. The process is exactly the same. I just make my mind as still as possible and I ask myself how I feel about that situation. I'm sure I'll get groans from people, but it's never been wrong.

Another thing that helps me is, there's​ no other way to say it. Solve problems like a man. I think men have had better problem solving training throughout their lives. They have an ability to cut through the extraneous stuff and solve a problem quickly, efficiently and elegantly. Well, maybe not always elegantly, but a woman could always solve problems elegantly. Own that class; own it, I say.

[SeeNoEvil]

TR I remember when I first realized there probably wasn't a God I went through several years of trying to find a place in that belief where I felt comfortable. Where to turn when there is no God left me with not a lot of answers. So you are not alone in this and as you can see a lot of great advise has been given. I don't know if there is much to add except to say it is ok to pray for answers if that is how you feel comfortable. We already know those answers come from us anyway but sometimes going back to that prayerful stance helps. I find meditation works, long walks, and yes in times of great need I have knelt in prayer. I go where I find comfort and where I can clear my mind. Remember, you've been making these decisions all your life all by yourself, you just didn't know it! You'll be fine.

[Give It Time]

TR I remember when I first realized there probably wasn't a God I went through several years of trying to find a place in that belief where I felt comfortable. Where to turn when there is no God left me with not a lot of answers. So you are not alone in this and as you can see a lot of great advise has been given. I don't know if there is much to add except to say it is ok to pray for answers if that is how you feel comfortable. We already know those answers come from us anyway but sometimes going back to that prayerful stance helps. I find meditation works, long walks, and yes in times of great need I have knelt in prayer. I go where I find comfort and where I can clear my mind. Remember, you've been making these decisions all your life all by yourself, you just didn't know it! You'll be fine.

I like this, because there is a lot of comfort in ritual and prayer is a familiar ritual. Nothing wrong with seeking that comfort in times of confusion.

[moksha]

I like to think of God as the best thing I can imagine. My imagination says that God wants us to use our thinking power to seek answers, find solutions and make life better for all concerned. I do not wish to give up on a God whose existence, although unprovable, can be a source of both joy and comfort. It is nice to be able to lay back on the summertime grass, somewhere dark, look up at the sky and feel connected to the immensity of the Universe. That feeling suffices as my needed intervention.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

I like to think of God as the best thing I can imagine. My imagination says that God wants us to use our thinking power to seek answers, find solutions and make life better for all concerned. I do not wish to give up on a God whose existence, although unprovable, can be a source of both joy and comfort. It is nice to be able to lay back on the summertime grass, somewhere dark, look up at the sky and feel connected to the immensity of the Universe. That feeling suffices as my needed intervention.

This is lovely.