What was different about the old board?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Emower
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Emower » Fri May 26, 2017 8:36 pm

Corsair wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 10:50 pm


The old board had ten years of history behind it detailed thousands of messages. The narrative of hundreds of people going through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance through their faith transition made it a treasure trove of pain, joy, and liberation. There were some astonishing messages of people posting 1000 times then writing a grand goodbye as they fully transitioned away from the church, leaving NOM behind for their own improving spiritual health.
That sounds really cool.

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Emower
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Emower » Fri May 26, 2017 9:02 pm

SeeNoEvil wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:12 am

I'll be blunt.... I don't feel welcomed any more. No one seems to know my name. There isn't that "hello" when I come through the door like there was before. I post and rarely am I recognized. I can't imagine I am the only one who thinks this. I noticed others are not given that recognition either, when some seem to get responses all the time. If you worry about why people leave then take the time to make them feel welcomed and important when they are here. Maybe they will stick around when everyone seems to know their name. Our worlds are rough for the most part. It can be risky and scary to post and when we do it is because we want to be heard, want to matter and need support. Many of us have no support systems at home. Our loved ones don't want to hear what we have to say or maybe we're to afraid to tell them for fear of the fallout. For many we have no one to share our most deepest thoughts or fears except to the faceless presence of stranger on a board. We all want to feel welcomed. I want to feel welcomed as well and just when I think I've had enough of this board and want to leave I think of how it was on the old board and give the new one another chance. We have the potential to be great here. I am sure the last thing any of us here wants to do is to drive people away. But I for one don't know how many more chances I'll give this board before I go another way.
I'm sorry you don't feel as welcomed here as you did on the other board. It sounds like the other board had many participants that could be engaged at one time. There are few of us here to comment on stuff, and that makes it hard when the measure of success or the measure of being welcomes is replies on a post. Not saying that is wrong, but just a difficulty of what we have here. But I feel like I know you in a small way after reading your intro and seeing you post. I am always interested in reading your comments.
alas wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:25 am

There are fewer women, and ....hard to pin down, but a different friendliness.


And I see that while I was writing this SeeNoEvil posted and does not feel as recognized or as welcomed. Perhaps that is part of what I am feeling is a different friendliness??? I haven't thought that aspect through very throughly, so I can't give specifics.
Interesting that people feel like the friendliness is different. It sounds like the old board going down was a tangible trauma. People are often not the same after a trauma. Often they are more jaded and cynical. It is interesting that it could happen on something like a forum, but it just speaks to the strong bonds that can form when you are trying to work through difficult things. I know that our Phoenix NOM get togethers have been wonderful for me.
MerrieMiss wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:59 am

I miss the old NOM. I liked the history. I liked and miss a lot of the people who never came back. I felt really lost when it went down even though I rarely posted. At the same time, I think there have been a few benefits to newer people like me. And I feel bad if those benefits have hurt some of the older posters. I’m not really sure what the solution is.
I don't think there needs to be a solution per se, besides maybe just an increase in participation if people feel like that is the problem. If there is not enough comment or thought flow going on, the only way it can be fixed is if every person does more posting and less lurking.
MerrieMiss wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:55 pm
alas wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:43 pm
Enough wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:20 pm
This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.
I have noticed something everywhere on the Internet Mormon discussions. The women are disappearing. Feminist Mormon Housewives has been nigh unto dead. They went a month with no new posts to comment on. I got messages that the domain had expired and was up for sale. When a new post does go up, there are as many men commenting as women and many of them are trolls. For awhile I thought the troll problem was because it is a believing blog and men think they can come on and call the women to repentance, even though judging others is against posting guidelines. But it is a problem with the perma bloggers being less active. They just do not come back on often enough to see the troll posts, so an argument with a troll goes on for three days.

Other feminist blogs are disappearing or just less active.

I get a general sense that women are giving up on the church changing, and just discouraged. More and more are getting closer to apostate than believing but feminist. Kiwi Mormon is one example. Her posts got few and far between, and now she sounds more NOM than struggling.

If women are really starting to give up on the church and leave, one would think there would be an uptick in feminist NOMs, but it is more like the men just won as far as church and Internet go and so the women are doing what Mormon women are socialized to do, withdrawing into silence.
This sums it up nicely.
This is fascinating. Food for thought.

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by MalcolmVillager » Fri May 26, 2017 9:41 pm

I think the lack of all that history is one thing. There were relationships and inside jokea and what not. I don't think all that carried over to this page. It will grow in time though.

The biggest change is that I am more apathetic now and don't have the energy to comment or share all the soul searching stuff that I did on the old site.

It was sort of like my FC journal. It was disheartening to lose all that.

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Nonny
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Nonny » Sat May 27, 2017 8:19 am

I am sorry I didn't see this topic sooner. Some great comments and ideas here to answer the question "what is different". I think what is different is evolution. The continuity is lost from the old board so it has to be different now. You know, Thayne was not the only past owner and moderator. Even owners and moderators need to move on through their stages of faith. Then what? Posters move on too. I miss the old board and the old friends, but for many, church issues fade from importance, and we wish a good journey to them. I ran into a poster from the old board and invited her to join up again, but she hasn't as far as I can tell. She is in a different place now.

And there are so many more resources for people now than there were 12 years ago when I was in a crisis. The bulletin board type forums have faded. Facebook with their closed and secret groups fills many needs. Podcasts and blogs. In person groups and workshops. Being in a crisis or transition is no longer in the closet. Even the church acknowledges the problem exists.

I appreciate the efforts of those who resurrected the NOM board. It is still valuable in the pantheon of transitioning Mormon resources. Perhaps we need a huge billboard along I-15? BTW, is Postmormon still a thing?

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moksha
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by moksha » Sat May 27, 2017 8:40 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 5:46 am
Yes, there may be posts that are lost forever, but Thayne didn't owe it to anyone to keep them - if you wanted them, you should have saved them rather than just assuming Thayne would always have them there for you.
Participants there would have rescued much valuable history had they known in advance the plug was about to be pulled on the board. We don't have that luxury for natural disasters but is can be mitigated for some man-made ones. Preservation of such history was desirable. Many of us suffered needless NOM withdrawals when the simplest solution was to transfer board ownership. There was no need to scuttle Microsoft when Mr. Gates retired.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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2bizE
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by 2bizE » Sat May 27, 2017 8:56 am

I posted a big long response to this on my phone a few days ago but it bombed out and didn't post. I hate when that happens. There are some differences between NOM 1 and NOM 2, but I think much of the difference is each of us are evolving in our experiences with the church. This has caused us to change. I have loved watching this evolution. I appreciate everyone's ideas and topics. I valve each response knowing that each of us are at different places, learning how to walk and talk again without approval from church leaders. This is what brings us together and makes us a type of family. NOM is like a foster home. Over time, people grow up and move out on their home. This should be expected. Some of us still need the love and support on our journey that NOM provides. I hope we are all making everyone feel welcome and free to sit down and take their shoes off for a while.
~2bizE

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Give It Time
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Give It Time » Sat May 27, 2017 9:03 am

alas wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:43 pm
Enough wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:20 pm
MerrieMiss wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:59 am
I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.
This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.
I have noticed something everywhere on the Internet Mormon discussions. The women are disappearing. Feminist Mormon Housewives has been nigh unto dead. They went a month with no new posts to comment on. I got messages that the domain had expired and was up for sale. When a new post does go up, there are as many men commenting as women and many of them are trolls. For awhile I thought the troll problem was because it is a believing blog and men think they can come on and call the women to repentance, even though judging others is against posting guidelines. But it is a problem with the perma bloggers being less active. They just do not come back on often enough to see the troll posts, so an argument with a troll goes on for three days.

Other feminist blogs are disappearing or just less active.

I get a general sense that women are giving up on the church changing, and just discouraged. More and more are getting closer to apostate than believing but feminist. Kiwi Mormon is one example. Her posts got few and far between, and now she sounds more NOM than struggling.

If women are really starting to give up on the church and leave, one would think there would be an uptick in feminist NOMs, but it is more like the men just won as far as church and Internet go and so the women are doing what Mormon women are socialized to do, withdrawing into silence.
Perfect.

I also think they are just withdrawing. After Kate Kelly was axed, she went through a painful period and then came back and said that there is beauty outside the church. She let women know it's okay to leave. I used to believe the church should and could change. Now, I believe that, if possible, if a woman isn't happy in the Church, she'd be better off walking out the door. No banging her head on the wall trying to explain things. No trying to negotiate better treatment. This church is what it is. Just walk.

I stick around, because I have a place to write down my insights into spiritual matters in a place that isn't likely to get me into trouble. Many times those threads don't get comments and I'm okay with that. It was personal processing.

I stick around because my son is still engaged in the church and until he's married, I will be involved on some level. However, it does result in some interesting dancing.

I used to post about certain topics and problems. I have a situation happening currently. I logged in to write and post about it just to bounce ideas and process, but decided against it, because I already pretty much know what I need to do. I now trust myself to have the emotional resources to handle the situation.

It's not just that NOM is different. I'm different. NOM was a major part of that and I'm grateful.

Finally, it's just kind of fun. I'm enjoying the temple recommend questions. Moksha's posts are usually good for a laugh. Just kinda fun.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Nonny
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Nonny » Sat May 27, 2017 9:37 am

We need all kinds of perspectives here. Those who have moved on to show the way. Those who are still engaged with the church to show us how. Those who are only involved in the church because of family dynamics. I wonder some about those who are newly in crisis. How will they find the help and support if there is no NOM to provide it? In the famous words of "someone", where will they go, what will they do.

Thank you all for sticking around or returning. Thank you new members for giving NOM a try. Thank you owners for taking action.

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alas
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by alas » Sun May 28, 2017 11:45 am

Emower, I had never thought about the trauma involved in the old board going down. Funny, because so much of my professional life was spent dealing with trauma.

But, yes, one of the things different about the new board is trauma. Think about military brats who suddenly get uprooted and lose all their friends and find themselves in a new school. My daughter is 40+ and we are still processing the trauma of her world being uprooted because we were a military family. She has difficulty trusting, difficulty making friends, difficulty judging the kind of friend she wants. And she is about as extroverted as A person can be. But she can't let herself care about people because they will be ripped away from her. So, she holds back. Second child is less damaged because she at least spent most of her junior high and high school in the same place, but she is still withdrawn and cautious about making friends. Me, I just stopped bothering to make friends. If someone wants to be my friend, fine, if not that is fine too. I just am not really capable of reaching out, calling people to say lets get together, or maintaining friendship over time and distance. Too many good bye's.

So, the trauma of the old board going down, and all the friendships that were lost. It is different seeing people come and go as they outgrow NOM and move on with life. That is like belting in a military town. Some old timers and some transient, but a core group that gave stability. But the board going down is like being the one who moves, everything changes, and when you get to your new place, you find other military who form shallow transient relationships. So, the whole group becomes less open, less trusting, less outgoing.

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trophywife26.2
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by trophywife26.2 » Sun May 28, 2017 8:37 pm

I agree the trauma of the board going down had an effect on all of us and the tone. When it went down I needed to check it every day to feel like I wasn't alone. When the board went down I had to find another way to feel like I wasn't alone. When it came back I was very happy, but more in the sense that I wanted the board to be available to people the way it was available to me when I first came to it shell shocked and scared out of my mind. I was happy the legacy would exist and I could contact you wonderful people, not necessarily that I needed it as much.

I do still find myself coming back though, because I still find it one of the gentler sides of the DAMU.

I feel like as moderators we didn't want the phrase TSCC or cult used here or at least not overly used here, but I do think we aren't here all the time, reading everything, so if no one reading it is offended by it, it won't get reported and won't get changed. I know I am personally desensitized to it and probably do not even notice it, which is on me.

I think a lot of private spaces have opened up for women online. I know many women are in private/secret exmo facebook groups, or the private exmo women subreddit I mentioned on another thread. Maybe we as questioning Mormon women have retreated to private spaces for a time. I'm glad some of us are still here, in the open, sharing our thoughts and challenging ideas.

I think that some of the gender ideas are so woven into the church that if the church unravels for a woman and she sees all she gave up to live as a Mormon woman "should" then she is just too tired, too done, given too much already, to even try to talk it through, work it through, try to change. At that point, some women have done enough and it's just time to walk away.
Even if it's something disappointing, it's still better to know the truth. Because people can deal with disappointment. And once they've done that, they can feel that they have really grown. And that can be such a good feeling. -Fred Rogers

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Hagoth
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 29, 2017 10:15 am

First of all I have to say to Enough, Ghost and SeeNoEvil that you are among my favorite NOMs, so it kind of hurts to hear long-timers say they feel like outsiders.

Here are my observations:

First, when NOM 1.0 went away a lot of us were forced to wean ourselves from a daily ritual. Some never came back and others found that they could cope with things without leaning as heavily on the perceived NOM crutch. Their relationship with NOM either ended or changed state.

Second, once NOM 2.0 came online and stabilized, and after the first wave of old members joined, we had new people trickling in at about the same rate as old. The new people felt like they were walking into a version of Cheers where nobody knows their name and the old members felt like they were walking into a bar where everybody should know their name.

Third (this is my experience and I can't speak for anyone else). NOM members often fade in and out. Most of us will post regularly for a while and then get busy or less concerned with church stuff and kind of drift away. Then something in our lives will send us back to NOM for a reality check. We may feel like "hey, everybody, I'm back," but to the forum as a whole it seems like normal ebb and flow. This was exacerbated by the gap between 1.0 and 2.0. I had a number of times when I saw someone posting and I honestly couldn't remember whether it had be been a few days or a few months since I last heard from them - or if they had just shown up on NOM 2.0 and should be welcomed home like a returning hero, so I just keep my mouth shut out of fear that I'm showing signs of senility.

Third, the old NOM still had a goal of finding a middle way. The new NOM is more about coming to grips with where we are and trying to transition through it. That caused some people to retreat back into the StayLDS corners of the DAMU and it pushed others onto new pastures.

I still think NOM has a very unique and important role and it stands apart from everything else in the DAMU. I like to check in on other boards from time to time, but there just isn't anything out there like this.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SeeNoEvil
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by SeeNoEvil » Mon May 29, 2017 10:37 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 10:15 am
First of all I have to say to Enough, Ghost and SeeNoEvil that you are among my favorite NOMs, so it kind of hurts to hear long-timers say they feel like outsiders.
Thank you! This means a lot coming from you. I am glad I got the chance to know you through St. Judas. As with the group there and here I always enjoy your posts. Your insights and wisdom have helped me a lot.
Third, the old NOM still had a goal of finding a middle way. The new NOM is more about coming to grips with where we are and trying to transition through it. That caused some people to retreat back into the StayLDS corners of the DAMU and it pushed others onto new pastures.

I still think NOM has a very unique and important role and it stands apart from everything else in the DAMU. I like to check in on other boards from time to time, but there just isn't anything out there like this.
THIS!
"Every event that has taken place in this universe has led you to this moment.
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown

"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57

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Hagoth
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 29, 2017 11:19 am

Silver Girl wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 9:20 am
In the thread by the SP, the color was mentioned - I don't have a particular thought on that, but I do think green may be easier on the eyes. Green might also allow for more contrast in words that are not boldfaced
That's really interesting and probably a bigger factor than we would assume. I remember when Thayne did an update on the old board that caused the colors to change and moved the avatars to the right side of the screen, like in the current board. There was an outcry. We had found a place that's safe and stable and it changed! Some people liked the change but many found it disconcerting. Of course, most people would adapt quickly but things like that can make a big impression and it got changed back to what we were used to.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Ghost
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Ghost » Mon May 29, 2017 11:23 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 10:15 am
First of all I have to say to Enough, Ghost and SeeNoEvil that you are among my favorite NOMs, so it kind of hurts to hear long-timers say they feel like outsiders.
Thanks, Hagoth. Let me clarify, though I hate to further call attention to myself in this way. What I was trying to say is that I see myself as somewhat on the fringes (of what is already a fringe community) for various reasons. But I didn't mean to imply that I have not felt welcome.

I only mentioned that because I imagined that others might also feel that their paths or thoughts don't fit a perceived typical narrative (if such a thing even exists) and I hope that would not keep anyone from participating if they otherwise would like to.

Your summary of the dynamics here seems pretty accurate to me.

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Hagoth
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 29, 2017 4:26 pm

Ghost wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 11:23 am
I only mentioned that because I imagined that others might also feel that their paths or thoughts don't fit a perceived typical narrative (if such a thing even exists)...
I think this was the big life changing revelation to many of us. We spent our lives up to the point of our disaffection believing that there was one-and-only-one path that we were supposed to follow, and then suddenly found ourselves cartwheeling off that path. The concept of a middle way assumes that there are specific paths to follow. To be more specific, it sounds like it assumes that there are three: church-centric, church-opposed, and something in between.

The big reveal for me was the realization that everyone has a unique path, that they are all valid regardless of what others think of them, and that our job is just to find our path through life without screwing things up for other people. Some people's paths are more difficult than others -maybe because they need different kinds of growth- and that's why the crossings of paths is so important. When our paths cross it provides growth opportunities. NOM is a good junction for people on similar but cris-crossing paths.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 29, 2017 5:59 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 4:26 pm
Ghost wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 11:23 am
I only mentioned that because I imagined that others might also feel that their paths or thoughts don't fit a perceived typical narrative (if such a thing even exists)...
I think this was the big life changing revelation to many of us. We spent our lives up to the point of our disaffection believing that there was one-and-only-one path that we were supposed to follow, and then suddenly found ourselves cartwheeling off that path. The concept of a middle way assumes that there are specific paths to follow. To be specific, it appears to assume three paths: church-centric, church-opposed, and something in between.

The big reveal for me was the realization that everyone has a unique path, that they are all valid regardless of what others think of them, and that our job is just to find our path through life without screwing things up for other people. Some people's paths are more difficult than others -maybe because they need different kinds of growth- and that's why the crossings of paths is so important. When our paths cross it provides growth opportunities. NOM is a good junction for people on similar but cris-crossing paths.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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A New Name
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by A New Name » Mon May 29, 2017 6:08 pm

Yes, the new NOM board is just not the same. I posted lots on the old board. I think I joined about 2006, and had lots of posts. I had lots of friends, and we even got together here in Southern Calfornia and I got to meet these friends. I was able to put a face to the avatars. I met some for lunch as various times.

When the old NOM died I moved on to StayLDS, drew the rath of Ray for my somewhat brash comments, but learned to to get along, and now post more there under a different name. I just got out of the habit, plus none of my "frends" that I knew IRL came back.

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nibbler
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by nibbler » Tue May 30, 2017 10:15 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 10:15 am
First of all I have to say to Enough, Ghost and SeeNoEvil that you are among my favorite NOMs, so it kind of hurts to hear long-timers say they feel like outsiders.

Here are my observations:

First, when NOM 1.0 went away a lot of us were forced to wean ourselves from a daily ritual. Some never came back and others found that they could cope with things without leaning as heavily on the perceived NOM crutch. Their relationship with NOM either ended or changed state.

Second, once NOM 2.0 came online and stabilized, and after the first wave of old members joined, we had new people trickling in at about the same rate as old. The new people felt like they were walking into a version of Cheers where nobody knows their name and the old members felt like they were walking into a bar where everybody should know their name.

Third (this is my experience and I can't speak for anyone else). NOM members often fade in and out. Most of us will post regularly for a while and then get busy or less concerned with church stuff and kind of drift away. Then something in our lives will send us back to NOM for a reality check. We may feel like "hey, everybody, I'm back," but to the forum as a whole it seems like normal ebb and flow. This was exacerbated by the gap between 1.0 and 2.0. I had a number of times when I saw someone posting and I honestly couldn't remember whether it had be been a few days or a few months since I last heard from them - or if they had just shown up on NOM 2.0 and should be welcomed home like a returning hero, so I just keep my mouth shut out of fear that I'm showing signs of senility.

Third, the old NOM still had a goal of finding a middle way. The new NOM is more about coming to grips with where we are and trying to transition through it. That caused some people to retreat back into the StayLDS corners of the DAMU and it pushed others onto new pastures.

I still think NOM has a very unique and important role and it stands apart from everything else in the DAMU. I like to check in on other boards from time to time, but there just isn't anything out there like this.
Interesting points. I wanted to add an observation about the environment in which NOM exists, if I may:

The old NOM existed in an environment where there were still relatively few disaffected members or members going through a crisis. Old NOM was frontier land, existing in the wild west days of dealing with all the various issues related to Mormonism. There was a sentiment I heard expressed quite often when people discovered the existence of NOM, StayLDS, etc., I even said it myself, "I thought I was alone."

I think in the last few years there's been a large shift that's taken place within Mormonism. Now everyone at church knows someone that's walked a mile in a NOM's shoes, NOM 2.0 exists in this new environment. When I say everyone knows someone I don't mean everyone knows about someone, or "I heard about this guy in my ward," I'm talking family member, close friend, mission companion, BYU suite mate, etc. Someone close with an existing relationship.

When someone finds themselves in the position of needing a little support they will likely seek out the people they know in real life. Message boards may feel a little colder than those real life interactions because it's the difference between interacting with an avatar and interacting with a person with a name, a face, and the potential for a more tangible relationship.

In short, as the stigma associated with doubt evaporates people may be getting their support elsewhere, possibly through communication that is more personal than a message board.

- - -

I can empathize with SeeNoEvil. There are the cool kids at NOM 2.0 and sometimes, as one of the nerds, posting can feel like talking to a wall. I don't know what the solution is for that.

- - -

I agree with the comments that talked about Mormonism coming at you in waves. There are lulls and there are more intense moments. A year or two ago it seemed like every time the church PR department opened their mouths they stuck their foot in it. There was always something to talk about because it was one PR blunder after another. By comparison, Mormonism has felt as dull as dishwater over the last year. Someone in PR learned that sometimes it's best to not say anything at all. ;)

Of course this is relative to me, it's entirely possible that I've been missing out because I've been pretty apathetic lately when it comes to church goings on. Did I miss anything or is a part of the environment in which NOM 2.0 exists a relatively quiet (predictable, boring, etc.) church. I'm talking the last 12 months or so.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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nibbler
Posts: 904
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by nibbler » Tue May 30, 2017 10:33 am

Re: The library at Alexandria.

I'm going to approach this topic stupidly. You ever play a video game where you're slowly and meticulously trying to do everything absolutely perfect, explore every square inch of a level, make sure you conserve ammo, try to be as stealthy as possible to earn the bonus X, do the extra difficult bits to get a few tricky achievements... and you round the corner and get one-shot by an enemy or the game crashes and only then do you discover that it's been three hours since your last save and now you're going to have to do it all over again.

Sometimes I yell !@#^% and start the process over. Sometimes it's been sooooo long since my last save that I view the task of repeating all the unsaved activity over again as too daunting and time consuming. I either:

1) Turn the game off and come back several days later for when I have the patience to meticulously do everything again.
2) Say "screw it" and repeat that section of the level, except much less meticulously. I just rush everything to get back where I was and forgo all the achievements, extra collectibles, conserved ammo, bonus XP, etc.

NOM 1.0 - The meticulous play-thorough.
Whatever happened to NOM 1.0 - Rounding the corner and getting one-shot by an enemy or the game crashes.
NOM 2.0 - Trying to rush things to get everything back to the way it was... except some of the relationships and other niceties can't be rushed... but maybe it's hard to have that patience to rewrite the entire library of Alexandria. Something had to give.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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oliver_denom
Posts: 464
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Re: What was different about the old board?

Post by oliver_denom » Tue May 30, 2017 10:37 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 10:15 am
Second, once NOM 2.0 came online and stabilized, and after the first wave of old members joined, we had new people trickling in at about the same rate as old. The new people felt like they were walking into a version of Cheers where nobody knows their name and the old members felt like they were walking into a bar where everybody should know their name.
Here's a fourth observation. I don't know if you guys remember this, but about every six months on the old board, someone would post about how they were upset over how much the nature of the board had changed. I remember one row was over how the board had become negative. Another was over how the board had become too liberal. Yet another blow out was over how a few people didn't support gay marriage and felt outnumbered by those who did.

The board has always changed, it has always been in flux, because the people change. It would be weird if the tone of the board didn't change. It would mean that it was the same people having the same conversations with no one new joining in. It's okay if the board changes, and it's okay if you don't like the change. It's not like we need to huddle up and assign visiting teachers to missing posters, or pass draconian mod policies to ensure conformity. That's the stuff we're leaving behind, not the stuff we're looking for in our future.
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

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