Zadoks Rule #6

[SeeNoEvil]

For those who don't know Zadok he is a long time poster from way back in the day on the old NOM. He posts here every once in a while but last I heard he and his wife were cruising the US in a Blue-Bird Wanderlodge Motor home. Let's hope when he sees his name up in lights he will pause the fun long enough to drop in.

Zadok's rule #6 states: Anything worth doing, is worth doing over. If you screwed it up the first time, learn from your mistakes and try it again. (Mostly applies to marriage, and roller-coasters). https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... oks_rules/

Or.... disaffecting from the church. For those just starting this race I thought I'd pass along some thoughts on what I learned along the way while journeying out of the church. I made some good decisions and some not so good. If I could do it over it I like to think it would be a smoother journey because of what I learned. Here's what I learned:

1. Take it slow. TBM's don't want to hear your disturbing truth. Note: Most will find you disturbed and not the church.
2. Be prepared. Don't underestimate the battle ahead. Note: Don't go into battle without a plan or a map!
3. People will pray for you. ummm... I don't need prayers! Note: Tell them their prayers must be working because you're happier than ever!
4. You may loose all your TBM friends. Non TBM will still love you. Note: Did you know a lot of your LDS friends are assigned? Who would've thought!
5. Be prepared to carry on an intelligent conversation about my findings. Note: Know your stuff. Talking to TBM's can be hair pulling!
6. Don't run down the isles at church shouting JS is a fraud! Note: Soapboxes don't work anymore.
7. Listen before you speak. I learned to listen before speaking. Did I mention you need to learn to listen before speaking?
8. Prepare to have door's slammed in your face. Note: TBM's want me to hear their testimony but not mine.
9. Set boundaries. Warning: New compromises and concessions ahead.
10. I sorely estimated the joy of wearing regular underwear & drinking coffee. Note: shed garments as quickly & safely as possible.

My intent of this thread is to provide a place where we can share what we have learned as we navigate through the Mormon maze for those just coming aboard to learn from. What have you learned? What would you do differently?

[Give It Time]

They don't want to know. They want to prove you wrong. Of course, the same thing could be said about us.

[Rebel]

Go Veeeeeeery very slowly !!! TBMs won't like whatever you have to say and as already stated be prepared for some serious backlash. the one thing I always hear is your leaving the one true church on the face of the earth!!! Oh boy . Here we go again I'm thinking. I usually say "but there are many paths to true Christianity " .

[Anon70]

After a disappointing year of almost losing a friendship over trying to explain what I've leaned I've lost any interest in talking to anyone about it at all. I just want to live how I'd like. But. I'm stuck. Good advice though if you want to talk about it

[crossmyheart]

*It gets easier. It takes a LOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG time, but it does.

*Logic and reasoning DO NOT work against the SPIRIT™ or HEARTSELL™ the best you can do is to slowly add cracks to peoples shelves.

*Move on. Find new hobbies. Try Yoga, or meditation, pottery, gardening, or a new sport. Replace the void-because the church takes a whole chunk of your life intentionally so that you will feel lost if you leave. Family will still suck you back in on occasion, which is why I still pop in to support groups like NOM to maintain sanity. All the more reason why you need to find a way to move on mentally and/or physically.

*Like SeeNoEvil said-Set boundaries. This takes time and trial and error. And remember this applies to yourself just as much as it applies to judgmental family. I did a lot of damage voicing my disapproval of the church which took a great deal of time to win back the love and trust of family members that I still needed in my life. In the end, setting boundaries often means finding middle ground.

[Charlotte]

7. Listen before you speak. I learned to listen before speaking. Did I mention you need to learn to listen before speaking?

The hard part is when you're with someone who simply doesn't want to talk about it. But you have to respect that and do all possible to strengthen the relationship, and make it clear that you think the relationship is greater than the church.

If there's room for another "rule," I would add: Be happy. Be obviously happy and at peace.

[SeeNoEvil]

They don't want to know. They want to prove you wrong. Of course, the same thing could be said about us.

Amen. This is what shocked me the most. When the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one doing the preaching I thought in all my zeal and passion people would believe. It should not have come as a surprise that no one would listen because I was that way when I was TBM. A couple times when I was TBM I found to my horror .... "anti" literature on my doorstep and I threw it in the trash. I lived in the Midwest at the time and there were churches in my area that actually preached from their pulpits the evils of Mormonism and thought why in the heck would they preach lies?!! When I discovered the truth it was to plain and clear to me .... yet, I was the only one who thought so. I don't talk about it any more. If anyone wants to really know I'll steer them to the churches essays and the CES letter to get them started. I've learned this filters out who is really interested and who just wants to prove me wrong.

[SeeNoEvil]

Go Veeeeeeery very slowly !!! TBMs won't like whatever you have to say and as already stated be prepared for some serious backlash. the one thing I always hear is your leaving the one true church on the face of the earth!!! Oh boy . Here we go again I'm thinking. I usually say "but there are many paths to true Christianity " .

It seems the #1 piece of advice given here on NOM is to take it slow. I had a good friend keep the secret for over 20 years before telling his wife, and to this day no one in his family knows. That is over doing the slow thing a bit but he has his reasons. For me taking it slow meant sitting on for a week or so which ended up backing firing. I suppose we never know how people are going to react. Just when we think someone will be receptive and understanding we quickly might find we assumed wrong. I did a lot of damage control during that first year.

[SeeNoEvil]

After a disappointing year of almost losing a friendship over trying to explain what I've leaned I've lost any interest in talking to anyone about it at all. I just want to live how I'd like. But. I'm stuck. Good advice though if you want to talk about it

I'm sorry to hear about your friendship. My relationships with my TBM family is strained. In time I have learned to move on and live my life as authentically as possible and I hope that for you. I fall back on the old Mormon line of "the seeds are planted." I have hope that one day they will remember what I tried to tell them and will know where to come when they start having those questions. I hope you get "unstuck" soon.

*It gets easier. It takes a LOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG time, but it does.

*Logic and reasoning DO NOT work against the SPIRIT™ or HEARTSELL™ the best you can do is to slowly add cracks to peoples shelves.

*Move on. Find new hobbies. Try Yoga, or meditation, pottery, gardening, or a new sport. Replace the void-because the church takes a whole chunk of your life intentionally so that you will feel lost if you leave. Family will still suck you back in on occasion, which is why I still pop in to support groups like NOM to maintain sanity. All the more reason why you need to find a way to move on mentally and/or physically.

*Like SeeNoEvil said-Set boundaries. This takes time and trial and error. And remember this applies to yourself just as much as it applies to judgmental family. I did a lot of damage voicing my disapproval of the church which took a great deal of time to win back the love and trust of family members that I still needed in my life. In the end, setting boundaries often means finding middle ground.

All greats comments! A word about Heartsell.... Mormons are not taught to think critically. No matter what facts are presented they are taught to rely on the spirit. Warm fuzzy feelings = Truth. You don't have to think for yourselves in Mormonism, just follow the prophet! He knows the way! We quickly learn upon discovering the unpleasant side of Mormonism that warm fuzzies don't always add up to Truth.

[MoPag]

Thanks for posting this SNE! Zadok was before my time on NOM 1.0. These are great.

*Move on. Find new hobbies. Try Yoga, or meditation, pottery, gardening, or a new sport. Replace the void-because the church takes a whole chunk of your life intentionally so that you will feel lost if you leave. Family will still suck you back in on occasion, which is why I still pop in to support groups like NOM to maintain sanity. All the more reason why you need to find a way to move on mentally and/or physically.

I like this! I think we almost have to rebuild our identity, or at least untangle it from Mormonism. Really take a step back and try to figure out what makes you happy and fulfilled.

My advice is to remember that TBMs are victims of the church too; they just don't know it yet.

[SeeNoEvil]

Thanks for posting this SNE! Zadok was before my time on NOM 1.0. These are great.

*Move on. Find new hobbies. Try Yoga, or meditation, pottery, gardening, or a new sport. Replace the void-because the church takes a whole chunk of your life intentionally so that you will feel lost if you leave. Family will still suck you back in on occasion, which is why I still pop in to support groups like NOM to maintain sanity. All the more reason why you need to find a way to move on mentally and/or physically.

I like this! I think we almost have to rebuild our identity, or at least untangle it from Mormonism. Really take a step back and try to figure out what makes you happy and fulfilled.

My advice is to remember that TBMs are victims of the church too; they just don't know it yet.

Thanks MoPag! Mentioning that TBM's are victims of the church too is something I had forgotten. A great point to add to the list. We too were once TBM's and we didn't know this stuff. You can't know what you don't know! And we can't blame them for doing just as they have been taught.

[Give It Time]

They don't want to know. They want to prove you wrong. Of course, the same thing could be said about us.

Amen. This is what shocked me the most. When the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one doing the preaching I thought in all my zeal and passion people would believe. It should not have come as a surprise that no one would listen because I was that way when I was TBM. A couple times when I was TBM I found to my horror .... "anti" literature on my doorstep and I threw it in the trash. I lived in the Midwest at the time and there were churches in my area that actually preached from their pulpits the evils of Mormonism and thought why in the heck would they preach lies?!! When I discovered the truth it was to plain and clear to me .... yet, I was the only one who thought so. I don't talk about it any more. If anyone wants to really know I'll steer them to the churches essays and the CES letter to get them started. I've learned this filters out who is really interested and who just wants to prove me wrong.

This is a good method. I've gotten so I refuse to point out abuse enabling/grooming behaviors and mindset. I just point them to a shelter or a DV expert. I figure, I'm the one who's been traumatized, I shouldn't have to traumatize myself further by explaining to people who don't really want to know. I didn't realize until I read your post, this would also filter out the ones who really want to learn and help and the ones who just want to prove me wrong, but it most definitely would.