My TBM mom bumped her head on her shelf . . .

[Abinidied]

I’ve had opportunity to sit down with a couple of very enthusiastic Snufferites (not sure if this is a derogatory term – sorry if you are one and call yourselves something else). My DW (dear wife) and I came away with a few take-aways that I see as a personal benefit but I have to say no more so than what I have salvaged from the church, or the Shire, or Napolean Dynamite. It’s so cool now that I’m living outside the church box how many insights come from so many sources. Nature and prehistory do this for me daily. They always have so I think it’s a given that others (including TBMs) as well as I have garnered insight and inspiration from sources that often have nothing to do with the correlated, church sanitized content.

Speaking of Snufferites, my aging mother asked me the other day if I had joined some other religion. She’s aware and was referring to a group of Snuffer followers in our area. I laughed and she was relieved. Oddly enough, this conversation pulled something off her shelf. She is an eight decade TBM (or so I thought) for the first time finding a safe place in me to reveal her modest, but important doubts. She was a convert and joined only to placate my dads parents and siblings. Dad sewed some oats after they married (very young) so Mom felt a responsibility to keep us kids connected to a healthy, family oriented prescribed way of living. Just made sense to her. I had previously told her about JS and his polygamisms. She believed what I said but quickly parked it back on the shelf while voicing some serious disdain for the practice. She did add, however, something else that caught me by surprise. She complained how much it bothered her that Mother in Heaven isn’t so much as a fragment of a footnote scripturally or currently in our narrative. All I could say was, ‘Yeah.’ Having opened this door, I blurted out a few more ‘historical problems’. That was dumb and I know better. I should have left it at ‘yeah’. Recently, a transitioned millennial put it very nicely when a question was posed in a small group I was in about how much to say to family. Unless they are begging, say nothing. I think I’d go a step further on the confidence of some sound advice offered me by many of you when I reached out. Even if they are begging, unless they are transitioning themselves, say nothing. Mom’s a straight shooter and told me they had been talking behind my back about what could possibly have happened to me. That was no surprise and again, I soaked up the support as limited as it is with those who can’t see beyond the veil of church censorship. I don’t mind anymore that I have no voice. It’s just a fact that comes with transition and I have to live with it like any other handicap. They will conclude what they will and I no longer feel a need to convince them their conclusions are misdirected. I feel so sorry for them and hope someday, as bits of matter unorganized, we come together and the truth of it all will out itself.

[SeeNoEvil]

8 generation TBM! WOW! And she is starting to have doubts! Your mom sounds awesome! I think there are a lot out there in the older crowd who probably have heavy shelves and it takes someone like you where they feel safe and van ask those questions. I suspect she will be back for more.

Recently, a transitioned millennial put it very nicely when a question was posed in a small group I was in about how much to say to family. Unless they are begging, say nothing. I think I’d go a step further on the confidence of some sound advice offered me by many of you when I reached out. Even if they are begging, unless they are transitioning themselves, say nothing. Mom’s a straight shooter and told me they had been talking behind my back about what could possibly have happened to me. That was no surprise and again, I soaked up the support as limited as it is with those who can’t see beyond the veil of church censorship. I don’t mind anymore that I have no voice. It’s just a fact that comes with transition and I have to live with it like any other handicap. They will conclude what they will and I no longer feel a need to convince them their conclusions are misdirected. I feel so sorry for them and hope someday, as bits of matter unorganized, we come together and the truth of it all will out itself.

This is great advice. I enjoyed hearing your reflective comments on where you are now. Sounds like you are on solid ground. In time we all get there.

[Anon70]

Unless they are begging, say nothing.
Even if they are begging, unless they are transitioning themselves, say nothing.

I don't know that I agree. If no one had ever said anything, I might still be beating myself up for not being a good enough Mormon.

Some good advice I got (and I see here regularly) is to be authentic, genuine and kind but that it's ok to speak your truth. They speak theirs (sometimes ALL THE TIME).

What I'm seeing at my house if is that by saying things nicely and non-confrontationally (usually prefaced with--I am uncomfortable with this...) then we can have a good conversation. And I think seeds are planted and I'm encouraging critical thinking and analysis.

Audience matters, I'm sure, but those are my random thoughts on the matter

[Abinidied]

I don't know that I agree. If no one had ever said anything, I might still be beating myself up for not being a good enough Mormon.

Some good advice I got (and I see here regularly) is to be authentic, genuine and kind but that it's ok to speak your truth. They speak theirs (sometimes ALL THE TIME).

What I'm seeing at my house if is that by saying things nicely and non-confrontationally (usually prefaced with--I am uncomfortable with this...) then we can have a good conversation. And I think seeds are planted and I'm encouraging critical thinking and analysis.

Audience matters, I'm sure, but those are my random thoughts on the matter

The problem in generalities (TBM should be begging - and only if they are in transition) is these powerful gems that you shared get ignored. I must actually believe what you've posted or I would have yelled, 'Look out Mom! You nearly bumped your head on your shelf!" No. I wanted and encouraged her to feeling guilty about it - obvious in my post. In hind sight, it's likely obvious I have a great relationship with my mom and look to her for advice and know she's open to exploration without feeling threatened by the brethren. Truth be told, I was encouraging it and very much have a hope finding some small success in sharing it. Funny I didn't pick up on this. Yes audience matters. I couldn't do this with my siblings or TBM friends, but I know there seeds I can plant as you suggest, although I might be up sheesh creek without a paddle when they find out what I've been saying to mom. Aftermath is consequence of my ambition to rescue those that will.

So . . . VERY good point and thanks for bringing a more nuanced perspective to the conversation.

[Anon70]

I don't know that I agree. If no one had ever said anything, I might still be beating myself up for not being a good enough Mormon.

Some good advice I got (and I see here regularly) is to be authentic, genuine and kind but that it's ok to speak your truth. They speak theirs (sometimes ALL THE TIME).

What I'm seeing at my house if is that by saying things nicely and non-confrontationally (usually prefaced with--I am uncomfortable with this...) then we can have a good conversation. And I think seeds are planted and I'm encouraging critical thinking and analysis.

Audience matters, I'm sure, but those are my random thoughts on the matter

The problem in generalities (TBM should be begging - and only if they are in transition) is these powerful gems that you shared get ignored. I must actually believe what you've posted or I would have yelled, 'Look out Mom! You nearly bumped your head on your shelf!" No. I wanted and encouraged her to feeling guilty about it - obvious in my post. In hind sight, it's likely obvious I have a great relationship with my mom and look to her for advice and know she's open to exploration without feeling threatened by the brethren. Truth be told, I was encouraging it and very much have a hope finding some small success in sharing it. Funny I didn't pick up on this. Yes audience matters. I couldn't do this with my siblings or TBM friends, but I know there seeds I can plant as you suggest, although I might be up sheesh creek without a paddle when they find out what I've been saying to mom. Aftermath is consequence of my ambition to rescue those that will.

So . . . VERY good point and thanks for bringing a more nuanced perspective to the conversation.

THIS is an example of what I love about NOM. Open, non-confrontational, enlightening discussion about tough topics. The best!