Do you drink coffee?

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shadow
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Do you drink coffee?

Post by shadow » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:17 pm

I had a weird exchange on Saturday. I was at my son's soccer game talking with another dad. We moved about a year ago, and this other family is in our ward and lives fairly close. We have kids all the same ages, and they like playing together. New friends in a new ward is about the only way we really know how to make friends quickly that live nearby. I actually really like the family, but we ended up having a bit of an odd exchange during the game.

Another mom came over to talk to us about an end of season celebration after next weeks game. Basically organizing fundraising for trophies and donuts and coffee. It sounded great. This other dad, however, felt it was necessary to tell this mom that he doesn't drink coffee. I'm not entirely sure his motivation for saying that. He seemed a little hesitant about the money. They just had their 7th kid this last weekend, so maybe it was just about the money, but the way he presented it, it made it seem like he didn't want to pay for coffee for everyone else. After he said it, he realized that he probably shouldn't be speaking for me and asked me if I drink coffee. I said I don't because I don't drink it around my family, but I haven't been asked that by another church member so directly before, and it threw me off.

The mom was quickly apologetic and embarrassed. He backtracked a bit and tried to make it out that he just didn't want them to make too much. You know, because they are going to make a very specific amount so none gets wasted. It was all very awkward.

It was an odd conversation that left me thinking about a couple of things:
  • I guess I haven't hidden my apostate colors so well in this new ward. I guess it makes sense that he would ask me. They did stop by our house once on a Sunday afternoon and I answered the door in my v-neck, definitely not garment, undershirt. On a broader scale, my bishop asked me where I was with respect to the church, and I told him that I was only there for my wife and for the sense of community. h/t to Oliver's thread about community because feeling like I don't fit doesn't do much to help my sense of community, but at least it's true that I'm there for my wife. This encounter made me question even more how I'm viewed in the ward, making me feel even more alienated.

    Why do mormons feel like they need to proclaim that they follow the word of wisdom? Would it really be so hard to just go with the flow, show up next Saturday, and just not drink any coffee?
"Healing is impossible in loneliness; it is the opposite of loneliness. Conviviality is healing. To be healed we must come with all the other creates to the feast of Creation." --Wendell Berry

Korihor
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Korihor » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:25 pm

Did this occur in Morridor? If so, it's odd but not out of the question. Outside of Morridor it seems it would be quite strange/impolite.

Next time you see this guy, just have a starbucks cup in hand, even it its hot chocolate. That will probably disclose him quickly.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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The Beast
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by The Beast » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:26 pm

Your question is a good one, but ultimately, I don't think your new friend is all that weird or unusual when it comes to TBMs wearing the WoW or any other Mormon peculiarity on his sleeve. We are taught to be peculiar and proud. We are taught to use our truths to evangelize. We are taught to avoid evil, even the evil of letting our own funds get used to purchase the devil's dark elixir for the imbibement of others. He was only doing what he has been programmed to do.

And to answer your question, yes, yes I do.
Are you on the square? Are you on the level?

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shadow
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by shadow » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:35 pm

Korihor wrote:Did this occur in Morridor? If so, it's odd but not out of the question. Outside of Morridor it seems it would be quite strange/impolite.

Next time you see this guy, just have a starbucks cup in hand, even it its hot chocolate. That will probably disclose him quickly.
Nope. Metropolitan Seattle - the land of milk and ho...I mean...weed and coffee.
"Healing is impossible in loneliness; it is the opposite of loneliness. Conviviality is healing. To be healed we must come with all the other creates to the feast of Creation." --Wendell Berry

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Lithium Sunset
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Lithium Sunset » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:52 pm

shadow wrote:Why do mormons feel like they need to proclaim that they follow the word of wisdom? Would it really be so hard to just go with the flow, show up next Saturday, and just not drink any coffee?[/list]
It's such a pride thing. I'm going to generalize but Mormons feel so righteous that they don't partake in coffee and tea etc. They can't just have non-alcoholic sparkling cider for a toast they have to have milk or something that stands out to prove they are not partaking in what society ignorantly thinks is normal. How silly is it that when I was young I questioned if hot chocolate was allowed(and some adults acted like it was iffy!).

All the same what happened was awkward...(and we could of course do a spin off of how the church teaches members to have more kids than they can afford or handle...) well, at least you know where they stand if your families continue to become close.
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." -Laura Ingalls Wilder

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Silver Girl
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Silver Girl » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:13 pm

This is a bit OT, but maybe not. This thread just brought to mind how absolutely insane it is for an entire culture to guilt others over coffee. During my TBM days, I attended a conference where they had decaf available & I got a cup. I happened to know one other person there was LDS (I am not in the Corridor) and I found myself explaining that it wasn't leaded - it was decaf. How absurd. To his credit, he didn't guilt me - he actually said his father sometimes drank decaf.

The whole church is wrapped up in a long list of meaningless rules and rituals. and it sustains that oppressive and ridiculous culture by making sure everyone keeps tabs on each other. Check for the garments. Watch to see if someone doesn't take the sacrament. Watch for alcohol. Watch for coffee. Watch necklines and skirt lengths. Make sure you do your VT and HT so you can return and report on who answered the door (in their own flipping home) without being in uniform.

How in the heck did I ever put up with that crap?
Last edited by Silver Girl on Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wtfluff
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:18 pm

If paying for coffee is against the WoW...

That leads me to believe that FREE coffee is NOT against the WoW.

I think Holy the Ghost just confirmed my belief to me. Bring on the free, evil, dark, roasted-bean based beverages! :ugeek:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Jinx
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Jinx » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:47 pm

Heck yes - one of the best things about apostasizing was discovering how delicious coffee is.
“This is the best part of the week!” – Homer Simpson
“It’s the longest possible time before more church!” – Lisa Simpson

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ThirdTier
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by ThirdTier » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:49 pm

I refused cola at a birthday party when I was probably 7 or 8 because we thought it was against the WoW. I came home and told my mom and got such praise. She saw it as my faith. I learned to associate this with praise. I also thought less of everyone else who took it and certainly the host who offered it. I also told my next door neighbor cola was evil when I saw them drinking it.

As I grew up I learned how immature this thinking was and even lamented as a believer that some needlessly stayed away from the church only because of the WOW and members attitude toward it even though I was obedient and stayed clear of coffee, tea, and certainly alcohol myself.

Now I love me that coffee. And the occasional beer.
"I wish I was special" Radiohead, Creep

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sirensong
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by sirensong » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:04 pm

i drink it every single day and i love it down to the last little drop. and when my cup is empty i fill it again. devil's dark elixir, indeed... by the way, beast, thank you for the recommendation about french vanilla cappuccino. a true friend steers you in the direction of the most tasty heathen beverages...
and in the end... the love you take is equal to the love you make...
~lennon/mccartney

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MalcolmVillager
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I am a "regular" active NOM

Post by MalcolmVillager » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:02 am

I would say I drink sugar and cream with some coffee. I am not into bitter stuff at all. It keeps me going though! I am grateful for an understanding bishop who says half his ward drinks coffer to help with constipation.

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Dravin
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Dravin » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:20 am

I enjoy coffee in the morning (though only if I've enough time between preparation and having to be somewhere due to certain gastrointestinal effects). Nothing fancy though, just Folgers, black, from a drip machine. I also enjoy a nice coffee stout though that's sorta a different ball game.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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wtfluff
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Re: I am a "regular" active NOM

Post by wtfluff » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:11 am

MalcolmVillager wrote:half his ward drinks coffer to help with constipation.
Oh, the jokes we could make up related to this statement... ;)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Korihor
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Re: I am a "regular" active NOM

Post by Korihor » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:41 am

MalcolmVillager wrote:I would say I drink sugar and cream with some coffee. I am not into bitter stuff at all. It keeps me going though! I am grateful for an understanding bishop who says half his ward drinks coffer to help with constipation.
Mormons:
Abnormally low DUI records
Abnormally high birth rate
Abnormally low lung cancer rate
Abnormally high constipation symptoms
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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document
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by document » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:20 am

The Word of Wisdom is a defining attribute of an LDS person. To keep the Word of Wisdom is to be Mormon. The more I've been out of the church, the less I see it as a control mechanism and the more I see it as a cultural identity.

This situation seems like a forced exposition in a movie.

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:24 am

document wrote:The Word of Wisdom is a defining attribute of an LDS person. To keep the Word of Wisdom is to be Mormon. The more I've been out of the church, the less I see it as a control mechanism and the more I see it as a cultural identity.
I think you're right, Document. I would say . . . it's both. When I first started my transition out of Mormon orthopraxy, I was drinking coffee as a rejection of the control I felt the church had been exerting (I gave it up when I joined the church 30+ years ago and I never stopped missing it). As I move further and further into a post-Mormon mindset, it is more something I do purely because I love it. But it's an added benefit that when I am seen drinking it, no one is going to mistake me for a Mormon. ;)
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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glass shelf
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by glass shelf » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:59 am

Coffee doesn't like me very much, so I don't drink it that much.

Mormons have a hard time grasping that it's okay to just show up and NOT drink coffee.

"Would you like a coffee?"

Weird: I don't drink coffee (or wine or beer) because (religious superiority reasons.

Normal: No, but some water would be great. Thanks.

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document
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by document » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:13 pm

But it's an added benefit that when I am seen drinking it, no one is going to mistake me for a Mormon. ;)
Love this.

Yes, my transition to coffee was originally more out of counter-culturalism. Now, I love it.

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Linked
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by Linked » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:21 pm

glass shelf wrote:Coffee doesn't like me very much, so I don't drink it that much.

Mormons have a hard time grasping that it's okay to just show up and NOT drink coffee.

"Would you like a coffee?"

Weird: I don't drink coffee (or wine or beer) because (religious superiority reasons.

Normal: No, but some water would be great. Thanks.
Totally. Mormons try to use it as a missionary tool or way to show their commitment to Jesus, making things very awkward. I did it for years myself. There was a convert 29 year old sister missionary on my mission and someone mentioned that it was bad to go to a bar, and this sister missionary quickly jumped in to say that there is nothing wrong with going out with friends, that it's not bad to be in a bar, just to drink alcohol, and that she had gone out with friends all the time. I found myself agreeing with her.

Later I got an MBA and had a chance to actually go to a bar with my class mates and took the opportunity to see if it really was ok. I ordered a coke and everything was just fine, though I was very nervous at the time.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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cwald
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Re: Do you drink coffee?

Post by cwald » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:01 pm

Yes.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

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