Bishopric counselor wants to meet with me...I'm scared

[sparky]

I've been flying under the radar for the most part since my faith collapse two years ago; I've been lucky to have a low-key calling that I'm ok doing as it doesn't require a huge amount of time and I don't have to teach/testify things I don't believe. But the counselor wants to meet with me tomorrow, and of course I've no idea what it's about, so I'm just sitting here imagining the worst, i.e. a new calling extended that will force me to decide between continuing to go through the (as minimal as possible) motions and putting my foot down and not accepting the calling.

I've been worried about this day for a while, as I feel like DW and I have reached a delicate balance where I tolerate church stuff to keep her happy and we just don't talk about it much. But if they want me to do something with missionary work or something that requires a big time commitment, I don't know if I can go on faking it.

I'd appreciate any votes of confidence/encouragement, or any advice you might have.

Thanks NOM! I know I don't post much anymore, but I poke my head in now and then, and it's nice to know there are others in my shoes.

[dispirited]

If it's a councilor, relax. They only give callings, so just say no to whatever he calls you to, unless it's easier than what you have. In my ward 50%+ of the callings get turned down. I'm a clerk, so I hear the talk. It's no big deal. All you have to say is that won't work for you right now, period.

[Newme]

Personally, I don't like being called in & not knowing the reason.
It would be much better to explain it over the phone to give you time to consider if you want to come in to discuss it & if you're being asked to fill a calling - to think about it with less pressure.

Maybe I'm way off, but it seems appropriate to be on the same page - they know what they want to ask, shouldn't the person being asked know too? Why the postponing in such one-sided secrecy?

[Brent]

First, millennial mormons are much more willing to decline callings. This means that at some point those giving callings will "get used to it". If you're offered a calling your not comfortable with then decline. If you're not comfortable declining ask if you can have time to pray and ponder about it. Then let him call you and decline with God's blessing...he's going to argue?

[Hagoth]

Just remember that it's a volunteer organization. They have no right to expect you to do something that you are not comfortable with. This is my line for just about everything: "I'm at a place with the church where I'm not comfortable doing that right now, but thanks for thinking of me." That tells them you have issues that they probably don't want to hear about and gets you off the hook without having to take a seat in the witness stand. If they probe you give them very simple, generic answers. If they testify to you, you just thank them.

After doing this for a year or so they just dropped me from the list. I no longer even get asked to say prayers.

[oliver_denom]

Just remember that it's a volunteer organization. They have no right to expect you to do something that you are not comfortable with. This is my line for just about everything: "I'm at a place with the church where I'm not comfortable doing that right now, but thanks for thinking of me." That tells them you have issues that they probably don't want to hear about and gets you off the hook without having to take a seat in the witness stand. If they probe you give them very simple, generic answers. If they testify to you, you just thank them.

It's legally a volunteer organization, but they don't treat it that way. I understand the fear because turning down a calling is treated like a direct rebellion against God. It also uncovers the fact that leadership has no authority beyond what we give them. It shatters the illusion and makes everyone pissy.

[SeeNoEvil]

There's some good advice here! Remember they are just men who have no real authority over you so going in there with that in mind you will be fine. My go to was always something like, "I prayed about it and the Lord told me I need to concentrate on blah blah at this time." You owe them NO explanation. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

[Hagoth]

Anything to report, Sparky?

[sparky]

Anything to report, Sparky?

Yeah, I got released from my previous calling and offered the calling of gospel doctrine teacher. I told him I would take a day or two to consider it and then get back to him.

DW looked a little confused. I had every intention of having a conversation later in which I told her everything: that I just don't believe anymore, at all, but I would be willing to keep minimally active to support her and to keep up appearances for her and my families. This is a conversation I have been trying to have for two years. I just can't bring myself to do it, guys. When she asked why I needed time to think about it, I told her we'd talk later, and her eyes dropped and looked so sad, and I hadn't even said anything yet.

By the time "later" came, I had lost my nerve and just told her I was done thinking about it and I'd go ahead and accept the calling. She immediately brightened up and told me she thought I'd be a great teacher. She thought I didn't accept it immediately because I was worried about the calling itself, that I wouldn't do a good job or something.

I don't care about the calling. It's an hour plus preparation time once a month, about as minimal a calling as I could hope for. I've taught a few times before, and I've always managed to turn it into a humanist lesson. Fine by me.

I do care that I can't talk to DW about what I really believe. I've had a thousand conversations about it in my head, but every time I get close to bringing the conversation into reality, I break down and retreat when I see how sad it will make her. I feel like I'm being torn apart inside, like I'm carrying this huge weight on my back that she catches glimpses of every now and then, but I quickly tuck it out of sight. I know it's not fair or healthy to either of us, but neither is any of the other options I can see. It just sucks horribly. Although I am a complete atheist now, maybe the scriptures are right when they say nonbelievers will be thrust into hell—this hell on earth. We have a happy life and relationship otherwise, but this is always ringing in the background for me and I don't know what to do.

Anyway, thanks for the support everyone. As much as I'd love to leave this all behind, I'll probably be sticking around here for the foreseeable future.

[Hagoth]

That's a tough situation for sure, Sparky, but it might also present some great opportunities.

First of all, it will give you the chance to teach lessons that are not just echo chamber indoctrination and rote question-answer sessions. It will give you the opportunity to make people think, and at the same time demonstrate to your wife and your ward that you are a serious truth seeker and not a cookie cutter Mormon.

Second, it will be an opportunity for you to gradually introduce your wife to your issues. In the process of studying and preparing the lessons you can talk to her about the parts that cause you problems and invite her to investigate and talk through them with you. Hopefully you can do it in a way that helps her to see that that you are experiencing sincere concern and turmoil over incongruent and harmful doctrinal issues, and invite her to think it through with you.

For me to come out to my wife successfully required her to see the toll my anguished study and all-night-ceiling-staring was taking on me. Her desire to help relieve some of my distress put her in a position to be willing to listen to some of my concerns, even when it was tough for her.

Hopefully this will be a blessing in disguise. Best of luck!

[Not Buying It]

Personally, I consider it a sign of the Church's toxicity that we feel like we can't even mention having any doubts about it with our friends and family members. What kind of a warped culture is it when you stop believing in something and hide it from your loved ones for years because you don't dare let them know you no longer believe?

It's sick. Really, really sick.

I feel for you. I don't know your wife, maybe she will take it well, maybe it all blows up in your face, it works different ways in different situations. But I hate to hear you torturing yourself for two years because you stopped believing and you don't feel like you can tell her.

[Linked]

Anything to report, Sparky?

Yeah, I got released from my previous calling and offered the calling of gospel doctrine teacher. I told him I would take a day or two to consider it and then get back to him.

DW looked a little confused. I had every intention of having a conversation later in which I told her everything: that I just don't believe anymore, at all, but I would be willing to keep minimally active to support her and to keep up appearances for her and my families. This is a conversation I have been trying to have for two years. I just can't bring myself to do it, guys. When she asked why I needed time to think about it, I told her we'd talk later, and her eyes dropped and looked so sad, and I hadn't even said anything yet.

By the time "later" came, I had lost my nerve and just told her I was done thinking about it and I'd go ahead and accept the calling. She immediately brightened up and told me she thought I'd be a great teacher. She thought I didn't accept it immediately because I was worried about the calling itself, that I wouldn't do a good job or something.

I don't care about the calling. It's an hour plus preparation time once a month, about as minimal a calling as I could hope for. I've taught a few times before, and I've always managed to turn it into a humanist lesson. Fine by me.

I do care that I can't talk to DW about what I really believe. I've had a thousand conversations about it in my head, but every time I get close to bringing the conversation into reality, I break down and retreat when I see how sad it will make her. I feel like I'm being torn apart inside, like I'm carrying this huge weight on my back that she catches glimpses of every now and then, but I quickly tuck it out of sight. I know it's not fair or healthy to either of us, but neither is any of the other options I can see. It just sucks horribly. Although I am a complete atheist now, maybe the scriptures are right when they say nonbelievers will be thrust into hell—this hell on earth. We have a happy life and relationship otherwise, but this is always ringing in the background for me and I don't know what to do.

Anyway, thanks for the support everyone. As much as I'd love to leave this all behind, I'll probably be sticking around here for the foreseeable future.

I am the same way Sparky, I avoided those conversations for years. The only reason I ended up telling my wife was because she saw my correspondence about being disaffected with another apostate. Those conversations are so scary, and typically painful for everyone, it just feels easier to continue and pretend. But like you say it is hell. The aftermath of telling her could also be hell. But it does remove the large invisible wedge between you.

This experience has forced my wife and I to learn to have painful discussions, and I think it will eventually lead to a better relationship (or divorce). I've found there is no good time to have these discussions, but there are worse times than others. The least bad times I have found are when you are at dinner on a date, or sometimes in bed before going to sleep if neither of you are exhausted. You do have an opening now if you choose to take it, you opened a tiny window into the issue when you met with the bishopric. You can use that as the opening for your conversation:

Sparky:"DW, remember when I took a day to think about the GD teacher calling?"
[she stiffens a little, knowing this could go somewhere sad]
DW:"Yes."
Sparky:"Well, it wasn't because I was worried I would be a bad teacher. I have been having a hard time with the church. (Discuss your 1 main reason with her, perhaps not sharing that you have come to a firm conclusion)."

For me those moments are super hard. It is so stressful that it feels like I leave my body and I am just watching myself talk. And then watching the pain in DW's face is crushing and heartbreaking. But remember this is not on you, you didn't put yourself in the situation where a reasonable course of action is considered the worst thing in the universe. For me practice has made these discussions a little easier and there are fewer tears now.

And you can of course continue to pretend. It's a valid life-preservation method which many of us here have used or are currently using. But if you decide it's time to have the talk, you do have a pretty good opening for the next few weeks.

Good luck!

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Just remember that it's a volunteer organization. They have no right to expect you to do something that you are not comfortable with. This is my line for just about everything: "I'm at a place with the church where I'm not comfortable doing that right now, but thanks for thinking of me." That tells them you have issues that they probably don't want to hear about and gets you off the hook without having to take a seat in the witness stand. If they probe you give them very simple, generic answers. If they testify to you, you just thank them.

After doing this for a year or so they just dropped me from the list. I no longer even get asked to say prayers.

This is so true. Having been on both sides of this issue I can tell you that issuing callings is the worst job out there. Unless you are a zealous sociopath, there is nothing hated more as a bishopric slave. And when someone issues a plain refusal, even when polite, they are automatically excused from further interactions out of the social awkwardness. That awkwardness acts as a shield of invincibility for the undercover apostate. The only difficulty is having to give up on caring what your social status is within the ward. If you can master not caring what others judge about you (one of the hardest things in mormonism), you will be able to have your cake and eat it too.

[Red Ryder]

Read Hagoth's post about 10 more times.

Opportunity is knocking!!!

[Hagoth]

If you can master not caring what others judge about you (one of the hardest things in mormonism), you will be able to have your cake and eat it too.

This was probably my biggest breakthrough. If you choose to believe in wacky stuff and judge me for choosing to believe instead in evidence-based stuff, which one of us really has a problem?

[Stig]

I was a Gospel Doctrine teacher when my faith collapse happened in earnest. I had to ask to be released and given no more callings; I just couldn't stand up there and say any of what the manual said I was supposed to say. At all. It was just plain over for me at that point.

[Emower]

I do care that I can't talk to DW about what I really believe. I've had a thousand conversations about it in my head, but every time I get close to bringing the conversation into reality, I break down and retreat when I see how sad it will make her. I feel like I'm being torn apart inside, like I'm carrying this huge weight on my back that she catches glimpses of every now and then, but I quickly tuck it out of sight.

I echo what Hagoth said. The whole reason that I havent had to "come out" to my wife is because I introduced her to everything/most as I was learning it myself. She saw my whole process which went from a faithful curiosity ==> anguish ==> disbelief in fact ==> anguish ==> nuance ==> more disbelief in more fact ==> more anguish ==> even more nuance ==> anguish ==> anger ==> finally acceptance of unbelief.
There are two reasons it didnt destroy us. One was the fact that we a super compatible and she is a saint. The second is that she saw my process and knew that it was not sin, lack of faith, lack of effort, lack of prayer, or generally a lack of anything. I dont recommend hiding this process. Like Hagoth said, opportunity is knocking for you to recreate the process with a little more transparency which will in itself prompt some more discussion.

[Red Ryder]

[Enoch Witty]

I was in your situation, Sparky. I resigned myself to living a lie for years and just did it. I didn't even know the church history at the time; I just knew the church didn't work for me personally. But I couldn't tell my wife or anyone else. I just kept it inside.

That only lasted a few years, and it was just absolutely killing me until I simply had to tell her. Then I did and it went well. Even if it had gone poorly, in retrospect, I wish I would have done it earlier.

I had to get into the place where I was comfortable with divorce. Note, I didn't want divorce. I love my wife and decided to live a lie for so long purely because of wanting to stay with her. But once I couldn't live a lie anymore, I decided that consequences be damned, I was going to live my truth.

Good luck to you, friend.

[sparky]

Thanks again for all the advice and sharing your experiences, everyone, it really is so helpful. I told them I'd take the calling, and I'm going to try doing what Hagoth said. You're right, Hagoth, I can see this as an opportunity to start sharing my doubts in a more organic way. Should be an adventure. I'll keep ya'll updated if anything interesting happens!