Mormonism's Great Divide

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Mormorrisey
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:24 pm

I haven't posted a lot lately - I've been focusing on my family relationships a lot more, which is a good thing. When I'm ready, I'll post some of the good things happening in my marriage and family. Still an avid reader, but just not posting, although I've been tempted. But a couple of interesting events has tipped the scales for me into writing a post. Still trying to process this.

The first was a sibling attending a family reunion in Utah. She was floored that a couple of what she thought were rock solid TBMs came up to her to confess their "doubts" about some church policies and history. Unfortunately this was overheard, so another family member thought that a reunion family home evening lesson should be about "staying in the boat." This lesson was not well received, but it illustrated a growing divide in her husband's family between the very conservative TBM's and more NOMish individuals.

And then, my own family attended Sister M's family function in a more eastern part of Canada, and had very interesting conversations with some of my wife's family. My BIL, who serves as SP in his area, who is pretty liberal (much to the chagrin of Sister M, he's read the essays and is pretty lax on some Mormon views) was visibly appalled at the story I told him about being released as a GD teacher, and said that it would not have happened in his stake. And then, another BIL who is a HC member in another stake, told me that he shared similar concerns as I did, specifically the mall, and the church had no answers for him. He said, "I've put all this on a shelf, but when there's 10-12 things on that shelf, it's pretty heavy!" What's fascinating is that another SIL heard this conversation, and was shocked; she told Sister M that "they shouldn't be having this conversation in the open!" And thus revealed a similar divide in my wife's family, to my sister's family, to my own family. And this is just MY anecdotal evidence.

To TBM's get this yet? That this drama is going to be enacted in almost every family in the church going forward, between the hardcore believers who won't let go, and those who know the real history and the real challenges with church corporate culture? That real family relationships are being shattered by insistence on dogmatic views of religion, rather than allowing more nuanced belief in individuals? Do church members understand that NOMs might actually stay if they weren't being forced out by the rigid conservatism of the doctrinal hammer? To me, this weekend revealed a true tragedy, and I can't see this ending well in my immediate family. My greatest hope is that Sister M remembers this weekend, and how we managed to be fairly close to each other, despite witnessing this clear divide in her family. And that's ALL I CARE ABOUT.

All in all, a very revealing weekend.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Not Buying It
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Re: Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:46 am

Interesting. The divide is going to get wider you know - the Brethren think they can get away with what they have always gotten away with, and for a lot of members they still can. But more and more members are open their eyes to the reality of the situation with the Church, and as more people become embolden to speak openly of their dissension, others will take note.

What I see happening is the Brethren refusing to budge an inch as more members become more NOMish or leave altogether. They are relying on the zealots in the Church to keep things running. I expect the rhetoric from the Brethren against those who are disaffected is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The Great Divide isn't going away anytime soon.

You are right to call it a tragedy, that is what it is.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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NOMelgänger
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Re: Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by NOMelgänger » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:52 am

I agree. I had resigned myself to keeping my head down and keeping quiet, but I can't do it anymore. I don't have to be outspoken; asking honest, simple questions to teachers & leaders is like dropping a grenade.

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Emower
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Location: Carson City

Re: Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by Emower » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:36 am

I had an interesting weekend with my in-laws who came to visit. I have not talked to them about my disaffection, nor has my wife to my knowledge. My parents know, and I have posted several in-your-face inflammatory articles on facebook. One of the reasons why I dont want to talk to them is because they are the kind of hard-core, black and white mormons who dont understand. The conversation will go nowhere. But, I am pretty sure that they know that I no longer believe.
Anyway, I fully expected some confrontation but it never happened. They saw me not try to go to the temple dedication, probably not wearing G's, and silence when the conversation came to church stuff. But no confrontation. I dont know how I feel about that. Good that they wont bug me, bad that I its an elephant in the room. Maybe I am the only one who feels like it is an elephant, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Korihor
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Re: Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by Korihor » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:34 am

they shouldn't be having this conversation in the open!
This sums up everything that is wrong with the church.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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oliver_denom
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Re: Mormonism's Great Divide

Post by oliver_denom » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:36 am

Our current incarnation of Mormonism is a poor fit for the 21st century. It would be easy to fix if not for the church's reliance on a core of membership located in the American west who would schism if it liberalized too much too fast. While other denominations have a wide birth for policy making and which doctrines to focus on in their individual congregations, Mormonism is centralized and correlated. If it reforms, it reforms everywhere. With today's information technology, they can't even privately make exceptions and changes here and there without them being spread across the globe in hours.

In an age where adaptation is a virtue, Mormonism is selecting itself for extinction. It can't change to give people what they need, and their culture is so rigid and focused on obedience that change would break it apart. So what happens in nature when a species is unable to adapt and can only survive within a certain niche environment? It begins to specialize, which is fine as long as the environment is stable, but may find itself unable to live after dramatic change.
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

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