Postmodernism anybody?

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 am

Hi Dogbite,
Thanks for your replies. I can see you put some effort & I appreciate it.

There is no doubt about genetic influence in part. But genes do nothing by themselves. They require environmental stimuli to be turned on (expressed) or not. If you're really interested in this, check out biologist Dr. Bruce Lipton's seminar, "Where mind and matter meet."

I cannot help but wonder why anybody would want to ignore science that demonstrates nurture/environmental influences on homosexuality. It's convenient if you want a scapegoat and not to take responsibility. But it gives away power by ignoring facts and trying to pretend that it's all out of your hands. Fine if you want to live in denial, but it's ethically cruel to force your denial on others, thereby contributing to their suffering.

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:34 am

Ben Shapiro: We've come to the point of science being an obstacle in the eyes of the left.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlWx4Adalk

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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LSOF » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:41 pm

James O'Keefe busts the Cultural Marxists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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Thoughtful
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:41 pm

Newme wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 am


There is no doubt about genetic influence in part. But genes do nothing by themselves. They require environmental stimuli to be turned on (expressed) or not. If you're really interested in this, check out biologist Dr. Bruce Lipton's seminar, "Where mind and matter meet."

I cannot help but wonder why anybody would want to ignore science that demonstrates nurture/environmental influences on homosexuality. It's convenient if you want a scapegoat and not to take responsibility. But it gives away power by ignoring facts and trying to pretend that it's all out of your hands. Fine if you want to live in denial, but it's ethically cruel to force your denial on others, thereby contributing to their suffering.
With anything parenting related, this is a hot button issue. Are you going to keep going back to medical or mental health provider who tells you your kids issues are your fault? Its not good for business to talk about environmental influences. Whether we're talking about food allergies, tantrums, disabilities, teenagers, sexual or gender identity. The doctors who stay in business are telling parents what they want to hear. Or at least not telling them what they don't want to hear.

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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by dogbite » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:02 pm

Bruce Lipton is a quack and antiscience huckster.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/epigen ... -it-means/

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LaMachina
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LaMachina » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:26 am

I'm still genuinely curious. How does a person who strongly believes that all have an unalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" justify taking away someone's pursuit of that happiness regardless of whether or not that happiness hinges on their choices or their biology?

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:39 am

LaMachina wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:26 am
I'm still genuinely curious. How does a person who strongly believes that all have an unalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" justify taking away someone's pursuit of that happiness regardless of whether or not that happiness hinges on their choices or their biology?
The constitution does NOT guarantee the "right to be happy."
Otherwise they'd have to support people who are happy by stealing or killing etc.
Marriage is not a constitutional right, otherwise, everyone who want to be married would be, but they're obviously not!

Still, you bring up a good point about how each of us has an INHERENT right to life!
So, how could anybody (especially those who want "equal rights" for themselves) justify killing children simply out of age discrimination? There is a law against cruel & unusual punishment. How much more cruel can you get in how abortions killings are done -by ripping childrens limbs apart, leaving a decaputated head, when their central nervous system (pain receptors) is intact?

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:41 am

Dogbite,
Rather than engage in logical fallacy, why don't you explain exactly which biological facts Dr. Lipton said that are inaccurate. If you can.
Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:41 pm
Newme wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 am


There is no doubt about genetic influence in part. But genes do nothing by themselves. They require environmental stimuli to be turned on (expressed) or not. If you're really interested in this, check out biologist Dr. Bruce Lipton's seminar, "Where mind and matter meet."

I cannot help but wonder why anybody would want to ignore science that demonstrates nurture/environmental influences on homosexuality. It's convenient if you want a scapegoat and not to take responsibility. But it gives away power by ignoring facts and trying to pretend that it's all out of your hands. Fine if you want to live in denial, but it's ethically cruel to force your denial on others, thereby contributing to their suffering.
With anything parenting related, this is a hot button issue. Are you going to keep going back to medical or mental health provider who tells you your kids issues are your fault? Its not good for business to talk about environmental influences. Whether we're talking about food allergies, tantrums, disabilities, teenagers, sexual or gender identity. The doctors who stay in business are telling parents what they want to hear. Or at least not telling them what they don't want to hear.
Yeah, parents will pay to hear comfortable lies over uncomfortable facts.
Scott Peck explained that we all have weakness & faults, but evil is denying these & thereby increasing our &/or others' suffering.

My niece was sexually abused & had negative experiences with men. For a time, she lived a lesbian lifestyle; she also spent some time in a mental hospital. Then she somehow served a mission, came home early, tried to get herself pregnant- missed one month then succeeded & called it rape. Then after bringing a baby into a mess, she married another woman. Somehow that fell apart. Through this, her parents have realized more how they failed her, and have done a lot to support her. Now she's engaged to a man who seems to be amazing.

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LaMachina
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LaMachina » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:45 am

Abortion has nothing to do with gay marriage.

Of course the constitution does not guarantee the "right to be happy". Thats ridiculous. But people are free to pursue their happiness as long as their swinging fists do not connect with other people's noses. Your examples are not even comparing apples and oranges...more like apples and meatloaf.

I remain unconvinced by your logic. :D

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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by dogbite » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 am

My link explained liptons errors. No need to repeat it here.

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:44 am

LaMachina wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:45 am
Abortion has nothing to do with gay marriage.

Of course the constitution does not guarantee the "right to be happy". Thats ridiculous. But people are free to pursue their happiness as long as their swinging fists do not connect with other people's noses. Your examples are not even comparing apples and oranges...more like apples and meatloaf.

I remain unconvinced by your logic. :D
Maybe because your projecting your logical fallacies.
This thread is not just about homosexual "marriage" but about the extreme way liberalism (post modernism) is going which involves several issues - but mainly the lack of logic.

Ie: Some may say in one hand that the contitution implies someone has the right to be happy as they want...
And in the next post they admit that "of course the constitution does not guarantee the right to be happy."

How can a logical discussion come from such lack of logic?
Last edited by Newme on Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:48 am

dogbite wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 am
My link explained liptons errors. No need to repeat it here.
So you can't point out exactly the problems you see with Dr. Lipton's biological explanations. Maybe because you didn't research Dr. Lipton's writings & lectures, and instead you trust the authority who tells you he's "stupid." Trusting authorities - is not just a Mormon thing, it's "appeal to authority" logical fallacy.

Logic: enemy of post modernism/present-day liberalism

I consider each human being fallible, including the authority you keep pointing to, or Dr. Lipton. Still, I search for & embrace any truth that can help me or others in practical ways. What I got from the long-winded explanations of Lipton is essentially, environmental influences have more effect on us than pharmaceutical companies would want you to believe. Therefore, we have more power over our health - through multiple aspects: diet, exercise, sleep, and beliefs etc. Beliefs are not the whole picture but an important part. To deny this is to deny the placebo effect which has been proven countless times.

dogbite
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by dogbite » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:40 pm

Lipton misconstrues the triggers and operation of epigenetics. If you read the link. It was clear. You didn't read the link.

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LaMachina
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LaMachina » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Newme wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:44 am
Maybe because your projecting your logical fallacies.
This thread is not just about homosexual "marriage" but about the extreme way liberalism (post modernism) is going which involves several issues - but mainly the lack of logic.

Ie: Some may say in one hand that the contitution implies someone has the right to be happy as they want...
And in the next post they admit that "of course the constitution does not guarantee the right to be happy."

How can a logical discussion come from such lack of logic?
Huh...and here I thought we agreed on something.

You say you believe people have the right to pursue happiness and I agree with you.

You claim the constitution does not, however, guarantee the right to BE happy (something I never claimed anyways) and I agreed with you. I think it's obvious guaranteeing the freedom to pursue happiness and actually guaranteeing happiness are two different things. So obvious in fact that I said equating the two was ridiculous.

But now you are telling me that AGREEING WITH YOU rips a hole so large through logic that discussion is impossible. Ponder on that for a bit.

But it's your thread, bring up whatever you want. Just know that when I ask how you justify impinging on someone's right to pursue happiness and you answer "in my opinion, these other people in this unrelated situation impinge on pursuing happiness too", you are not answering the question but merely deflecting. It's raining logical fallacies apparently.

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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:32 pm

Newme wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:48 am
Logic: enemy of post modernism/present-day liberalism
I haven't responded to this thread in a long while, and in the risk of being a meddling old codger, I think I have the problem of how this has gone off the rails a tad, in my humble estimation. My apologies in advance if anyone is offended.

Newme, I think the challenge is the persistent use of the words "facts" and or "logic" in reference to your own ideologies, coupled with your argument that modern day liberals ignore these facts and logical conclusions that you are suggesting. Surely you can understand that the "facts" you are using here are in dispute by those on opposite side of the spectrum, and the authorities you use to support your claims are those who support your particular ideology, and there are those of us who dispute those authorities. And then WHEN those "facts" are disputed, you claim that their adherents aren't using logic. It's a bit circular, my friend.

I had the same debate with Sis. M, when she posted some "facts" from the American College of Pediatricians on her Facebook about the "harm" that fluid gender ideologies are causing in children. I patiently explained that this college had an agenda, that it's socially conservative, and has come to the conclusion that same sex marriage harms children because of course it did, being a group of conservative pediatricians. And I showed her from other sources that other pediatricians are coming to different conclusions about gender ideology, and THEY TOO have a particular agenda, so one needed to be careful about data being massaged. So my wife asked me, well, what's the truth? And then I shared with her what a good friend WORKING IN THE FIELD said when I asked her what she thought about this controversy. Like a good logician, she said the data was inconclusive, because same-sex acceptance was a relatively new thing, as was same-sex parenting, etc. etc. So in her mind, we simply don't know all the facts yet. The kicker is, this friend is a lesbian raising a child with her same-sex partner, so she has skin in the game, so to speak, and refuses to come to any conclusion until more data is there. Now, THAT'S using logic, and not ideology, to try to get at truth.

And to me, that's why using ANY ideology in attempt to get at truth is a potential minefield, and that includes postmodernism, as well as libertarian conservatism. My last two cents.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:32 pm
Newme wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:48 am
Logic: enemy of post modernism/present-day liberalism
I haven't responded to this thread in a long while, and in the risk of being a meddling old codger, I think I have the problem of how this has gone off the rails a tad, in my humble estimation. My apologies in advance if anyone is offended.

Newme, I think the challenge is the persistent use of the words "facts" and or "logic" in reference to your own ideologies, coupled with your argument that modern day liberals ignore these facts and logical conclusions that you are suggesting. Surely you can understand that the "facts" you are using here are in dispute by those on opposite side of the spectrum, and the authorities you use to support your claims are those who support your particular ideology, and there are those of us who dispute those authorities. And then WHEN those "facts" are disputed, you claim that their adherents aren't using logic. It's a bit circular, my friend.

I had the same debate with Sis. M, when she posted some "facts" from the American College of Pediatricians on her Facebook about the "harm" that fluid gender ideologies are causing in children. I patiently explained that this college had an agenda, that it's socially conservative, and has come to the conclusion that same sex marriage harms children because of course it did, being a group of conservative pediatricians. And I showed her from other sources that other pediatricians are coming to different conclusions about gender ideology, and THEY TOO have a particular agenda, so one needed to be careful about data being massaged. So my wife asked me, well, what's the truth? And then I shared with her what a good friend WORKING IN THE FIELD said when I asked her what she thought about this controversy. Like a good logician, she said the data was inconclusive, because same-sex acceptance was a relatively new thing, as was same-sex parenting, etc. etc. So in her mind, we simply don't know all the facts yet. The kicker is, this friend is a lesbian raising a child with her same-sex partner, so she has skin in the game, so to speak, and refuses to come to any conclusion until more data is there. Now, THAT'S using logic, and not ideology, to try to get at truth.

And to me, that's why using ANY ideology in attempt to get at truth is a potential minefield, and that includes postmodernism, as well as libertarian conservatism. My last two cents.
Same sex parenting, as in, a loving gay couple adopts an infant is so new that we don't have a lot.

But same sex parenting as in mixed orientation relationship produced children who are raised all or in part by a gay parent is not new, and the outcomes seem to be more related to adverse childhood experiences nkle than the parent's sexual orientation

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Newme
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by Newme » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:18 pm

Moremoreissy,
I appreciate your respectful tone but not your making blanket statements rather than saying exactly which facts or logic are inaccurate.

Thoughtful,
The most credible study done on children raised by homosexual parents reveal multiple problems statistically, including likelihood of arrest, report of unsafe & negative impact of childhood, lower educational achievement, more likely to suffer from depression, & other problems. http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/homosexua ... f-findings

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LaMachina
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LaMachina » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:50 pm

The most credible study done on children raised by homosexual parents
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:13 pm

LaMachina wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:50 pm
The most credible study done on children raised by homosexual parents
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ya think we'll get a quote from the Westboro Baptists here any time soon? ;)
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Re: Postmodernism anybody?

Post by LSOF » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:59 am

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:13 pm
LaMachina wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:50 pm
The most credible study done on children raised by homosexual parents
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ya think we'll get a quote from the Westboro Baptists here any time soon? ;)
It's by no means impossible!
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