Treatment of gays

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alas
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Treatment of gays

Post by alas » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:19 am

Edited to avoid my DIL being identified.

I am angry at the way "good" Mormons are taught to treat gay family members. My daughter in law is hurting because her family of origin are ass hats. her "good" Mormon parents treat her like ...well like D. H. (D. H. stands for damn him) Oaks teaches them to. They haven't exactly cut her out of their lives, but are constantly reminding her that she is not who they want her to be. They refuse to allow her to bring her wife to family gatherings or funerals, just exactly like Oaks says to do.
They follow the guidelines that Oaks said to on how to handle a gay family member. But they can't see how hurtful this non-love is. Their attitude for family gatherings is "you will embarrass us to death if you come, so better just stay the hell away.

So, last night I lay awake making up versions of "Follow the Prophet" that would qualify as mocking the lord's anointed.

How can people not see that Oaks is not a psychologist, not a family counselor, not any kind of expert on how to "love" your gay children, and that maybe, just maybe he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about when he says, "tell your gay child not to expect to bring their partner around friends or family." How can people follow that kind of advice and not have it hurt them to cut their own child out of their lives? How can they not see that it hurts the child in ways that are just plain abusive?

I guess those are rhetorical questions, because I know the answer. They think they are being righteous and protecting the younger siblings from the highly contagious Gay virus. They think that by making their disapproval very clear that they can change the child into what they want. They think by praising her straight sister constantly, and doing nothing but criticize her, they will somehow make her repent.

But you just can't repent of being who you are, or of falling in love.

What the hell kind of God do these people worship?
Last edited by alas on Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Give It Time
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by Give It Time » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:48 am

I'm sorry for all your daughter-in-law is going through. I will join you in calling him Damn Him Oaks.

He seems to have forgotten the Savior who walked in Galilee wouldn't have done this.

It's stories like this that have me believing that maybe traditional families aren't the best thing, after all. Sorry. Sometimes people are born into toxic situations and I do believe that distance might be the best thing.

Now, if the world were perfect, your DIL would have gone to her uncle's funeral in a limo. A freaking huge limo that announced she would not be kept away from this occasion. If there was a favorite thing she and this uncle shared, she would have worn something that reflected that instead of the usual somber tones.

Your DIL has my good thoughts for a successful recovery and surgery.

As for funding, it's just a thought, but if there were a crowd fund campaign, I would contribute to it if know connection were traceable between that fund and here. My contribution would not be large, but it would be there for your DIL.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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alas
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by alas » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:41 am

Give It Time wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:48 am
I'm sorry for all your daughter-in-law is going through. I will join you in calling him Damn Him Oaks.

He seems to have forgotten the Savior who walked in Galilee wouldn't have done this.

It's stories like this that have me believing that maybe traditional families aren't the best thing, after all. Sorry. Sometimes people are born into toxic situations and I do believe that distance might be the best thing.

Now, if the world were perfect, your DIL would have gone to her uncle's funeral in a limo. A freaking huge limo that announced she would not be kept away from this occasion. If there was a favorite thing she and this uncle shared, she would have worn something that reflected that instead of the usual somber tones.

Your DIL has my good thoughts for a successful recovery and surgery.

As for funding, it's just a thought, but if there were a crowd fund campaign, I would contribute to it if know connection were traceable between that fund and here. My contribution would not be large, but it would be there for your DIL.
See PM. And thanks for the thought.

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Hagoth
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:57 am

It seems to me that taking advice about how to treat gay loved ones from an outspoken homophobe is about as useful as taking flying lessons from an ostrich.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Newme
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by Newme » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:46 pm

Amazing that Oaks has told them not to give her money for surgery insurance won’t cover.
Oaks must be conniving with her insurance too!
How horrible for Oaks to hate her simply for feeling gay!

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2bizE
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by 2bizE » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:17 pm

Terrible. It is ok to call Oaks Darth Vader. I think he is a closeted homosexual and that is why he pursues such an agenda to the extent he does. I don't think a second passes by that he doesn't think of hurting gays.
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~2bizE

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Jeffret
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by Jeffret » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:06 pm

Well, what's the use of religion if you can't use it to look down on and denigrate others? What good is it if it doesn't make you feel better than others?


Condolences on how all this going on with your family. It's a terrible situation. It's too bad the family can't prioritize people over organizations and ideas. They're really more important.


Things like this are really why I can't participate in the Church. There are far too many of these sorts of things. As you say, "What the hell kind of God do these people worship?" It's really not a god I could worship. If he's going to send me to eternal torment for not worshipping him, I'd prefer that over being in the presence of such a being or giving him any praise whatsoever. That god I could possibly worship would have to be much better than this, would have to excel at all the things where I'm the weakest and still exceed me in the ways in which I have the most goodness. Any god I could worship wouldn't need my worship. When I look at the one they worship, I think the Hulk summed it up best, "Puny god!"
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:49 am

Just in case there are those who don't believe that Oaks said these things about having gay relatives:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/i ... attraction

I don't think I will ever have to deal with this, my kids are pretty open with me about all sorts of struggles and they know I'm a LBGTQ ally, so I'm pretty sure if they were attracted to same-gender individuals, they'd tell me; so I can't empathize completely with your situation. But isn't this about human decency? I love my kids regardless of their beliefs or even actions; it's this conditionally loving God bullcrap that makes this so insidious. So sorry your kids are going through this. I'm sure they're grateful to have your support.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Treatment of gays

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:31 am

alas wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:19 am
I am angry at the way "good" Mormons are taught to treat gay family members. My daughter in law is hurting because her family of origin are ass hats.
alas, come on now. Read these two sentence.

I personally think it is a misnomer that we can speak behind people's back one way and not have it come out when we speak to their face. (Though I believe you would call them "ass hat" to their face.)

But, I'm just going to toss this in there. People tend to be what you think they are, (even if they are not that way.) Instead of speaking ass-hat to them, appeal to their human side, their vulnerable side. Find the good, speak to it.

I have seen "good Mormons" come around. Gayness threatens them and their illusions, but they still have love in their hearts. I've been approached a couple of times by people speaking ass-hat and I've never felt compelled to be that helpful. Like my step-son and his new wife only call when they need something, but I have overheard her family talking shit on my family. They don't visit, but we get all of the requests for fundraisers. I haven't heard from them in months, suddenly he needs help replacing his shower. It's not him so much, but her family completely dislikes us. It's not that I wouldn't help him, but I not going to go out of my way to save him money when he hasn't brought the kids over since Christmas.

I don't approve of dissing family, but family is built on illusions. Mothers are tied through biology in a stronger way, but the rest is mostly feelings and teachings. And if you disregard the illusions that the family is built upon, it won't go well.

But, I hope things work out.

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