Baby and the Bathwater

[slavereeno]

I am feeling torn. Part of me wants to resign Today and shout the why from the rooftops. Another part of me can see some of the good and doesn't want to throw that out just yet. I am interested in thoughts on the baby and the bathwater aspects of the church. How can I get the baby and reject the bathwater if I stay? OR How can I get the baby without all the bathwater if I leave?

The Bathwater:
* Garments
* The endowment
* The anointing
* Worship of JS
* Worship of leaders
* Worship of the church itself/Trying to convince ourselves we aren't in a cult
* Home teaching
* Visiting teaching
* General/Regional/Stake/Ward conference
* About 2 1/2 hours of the 3 hour block
* Tithing
* MTC/Seminary/Institute/Primary brainwashing
* Seminary
* Institute
* Polygamy
* Gay hate
* Racism
* Most of the Book of Mormon
* The books of Moses and Abraham
* The leaders and all they say are untouchable
* "The One True Chruch"
* Missionary challenges
* Cleaning the church/Temple
* Double or triple callings
* The "Us vs Them" mentality
* Sickening sweet relief society speakers
* Condescending priesthood speakers
* Attitudes about sex and Love
* The shame
* The guilt
* Bishop interviews for minors
* Bishop interviews for adults
* Some of the hymns
* Topic avoidance
* Church history whitewashing
* Thinking we are better than everyone else
* Three degrees of glory
* Needing to claim the BoM was a history of the inhabitants of the Americas
* No coffee/tea
* Church fundraisers
* Self righteousness
* Don't grow a beard, you need to be a copy of one of the members of the Q15
* Hypocrisy
* Family history work
* BYU
* Constantly talking about porn
* Fundraising (AKA Mormon money laundering)
* Pretending to believe everything in order to fit in
* Pretending to be perfect to be accepted
* Being judged as a human by wealth/status/good looks (all three of which I am, sadly, lacking...)
* Saying that anything good was the Lord's "tender mercy"
* Saying that anything bad was the Lord's "humbling me"
* excluding people from weddings

The Baby:
* The community
* About 25% of the best of the hymns
* Striving for excellence
* Teachings against drugs, alcohol and sex for teens
* The youth activities (if you remove the weird brainwashing aspects of them)
* The ward activities
* Teachings of Love
* Teachings of humility
* Family night/family focus
* Organized service opportunities
* Teachings of commitment to marriage
* Teachings of respect for others (if this could be made to include all others)
* Teachings of modesty/cleanliness
* Prayer/Meditation
* Sense of purpose
* Knowing about my ancestors/being connected to my past

Stuff I don't Know where to put yet:
* Alcohol (I am glad that I am not an alcoholic like my uncle, but I wish I knew what it was like to have a drink now and then)
* Sealings in the temple (this is the one thing I like to do with my wife in the temple)
* A single calling (If I had a say in what I wanted to do and could choose my availability this could be fun)
* Missions (honestly mine was amazing and helped me grow so much as a person, I learned a second language, I gained confidence, learned to live on my own, to respect my parents. I hate sending my kids but love what its done for them when they get back... 2 years is too long and there is the washing of brains part that I dislike...)

Wow I just realized how long my bathwater list is...

[Jeffret]

I think it's a very interesting analysis. It goes back to the guy who founded NOM and his efforts to keep the good parts and ignore the bad.

You've put some items in different categories than I would, but that's okay. Everyone is going to have their own collection of things that fall under the "baby" category and those in "bathwater".

Ultimately, it comes down to making a personal assessment for yourself on which ones to keep and which to let go. If you stay in the Church, it's possible to choose the things you will follow and do and ignore some others. Everyone does, but as a NOM, I was just more thorough and firm about it. And felt less guilt about ignoring some things. Or if you leave, you still need to do the same. Pick those things you want to retain in your life.

The biggest part of the "baby" to keep, if you can is your family and other real relationships.

[Corsair]

I thought about writing a (hopefully) helpful, but snarky, reply to items in your list. But I can summarize it and probably be more effective. However, let me fully acknowledge each one of these items since it's pretty similar to my list.

The best long-term attitude towards the LDS church is indifference. On an average Sunday, you will not be grilled on this long list of doctrines or policies. A very common surprise to people losing faith in the LDS church is that very few believers really want to talk to you about any of these items. Seriously, my own wife has known for years that I don't believe and she has never fully engaged with me on what I actually believe any longer.

Stop trying to prove the LDS church wrong. The believers don't want to listen to you. Instead, spend some time figuring out what you actually want to do with your life now that LDS exaltation is not a realistic goal in any functional or existential sense. No matter where you end up in religious belief, you need to establish the real goals and interests in your life. What do you want to do with the presumed free time and resources you expect to have? Start a business? Learn to speak Italian? Join a funk band? Read "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" in the original Chinese? Scale Mount Everest? Take a bathyscape into the Marians Trench? Hopefully you want to stick with your family and friends as much as reasonably possible. Find that new set of short and long term goals that is interesting to you and that you will enjoy.

Part of the point of all this is to put the burden of proof back on the church. For example, suppose you want to stop attending your ward each week, or at least cut back. It's not very useful to spend your time expalining all the reasons you don't want to go. Simply don't go and start working on some other productive activity. Make the church explain in detail why you have some fundamental obligation to go to three hours of church.

A couple of years ago I simply stopped wearing garments. I did not make an announcement, even to my wife. I just stopped putting them on in the morning and enjoying one less layer of clothing in the Arizona summer. Most people didn't notice, including my dear wife since it just turned into what I do. I did not ask permission from anyone. I could go on, but a more detailed conversation would probably work best over lunch. When are you available?

[wtfluff]

To quote a quote that can never be over-quoted:

That which is unique about mormonism is not good; that which is good about Mormonism is not unique.

[Red Ryder]

The problem with taking a bath is that when you fart, the bubbles always rise to the top sending a high concentrated whiff directly to your nose. The church can be like that sometimes.

Baby: free to choose for yourself.

Bath water: obedience

[Korihor]

Don't resign until your wife is onboard with the decision. Getting your name off the records isn't going to change much in your day to day life, but has the potential to really disrupt your marriage. She doesn't have to agree with your desire, but she needs to accept it. Talk to her about it.

Take her on this journey with you. She will feel connected and close even if it's something you see differently.

Your list of baby and bathwater is good, I like the analogy

The unknowns:
Don't rush into alcohol. You've spent this much of your whole life without it. You're not missing out on much. When the time right, go for it. Invite your spouse to partake.

It can get expensive, quickly. You've been warned. Odds are, you'll never become a raging alcoholic. This far into your life, you know how to be a responsible adult. REMEMBER - YOU'RE NOT MISSING OUT ON MUCH!!!

Sealings, Bathisms, Callings, Missions - I don't got much for ya. If you can live one foot in, one foot out, good for you. For now, just keep doing what you're doing. You're free to change your mind or desires at any time.

[GoodBoy]

Good list!

The bottom line for me is baby = the community. bathwater = what they talk about when they get together.

[slavereeno]

I could go on, but a more detailed conversation would probably work best over lunch. When are you available?

Corsair, I responded/posed a question in my introduction thread.

[slavereeno]

Don't resign until your wife is onboard with the decision. Getting your name off the records isn't going to change much in your day to day life, but has the potential to really disrupt your marriage. She doesn't have to agree with your desire, but she needs to accept it. Talk to her about it.

We have been trying to take this all a bit at a time. We are on a bit of a discussion hiatus right now since we both needed a break from talking about it. It gets super emotional pretty quick.

Don't rush into alcohol. You've spent this much of your whole life without it. You're not missing out on much. When the time right, go for it. Invite your spouse to partake.

I am certainly in no rush there. In fact my current line of thinking is if I never try it, that would be just fine.

In fact, ATM I intend to change nothing about my core behaviors. First off I am reasonably adjusted to my lifestyle. Secondly, if I did decide to leave one day I don't want anybody to use a perceived desire to sin as my reason, it would deflate its potency. I would want it to be as powerful as possible and keeping the standards of the church before, and for some lengthy duration afterwards would be part of that.

[slavereeno]

The bottom line for me is baby = the community. bathwater = what they talk about when they get together.

Yes! That is a very succinct summary.

[oliver_denom]

What you can keep and discard off these lists largely depends on what you are able to tolerate. Except for a short list of absolute taboos like open apostasy and sex, I've found that the church will do very little to stop you from believing or doing just about anything you want. If you can tolerate the rumor mill, being shunned, losing the respect of those around, and other passive aggressive behaviors, then the most they can do is make things feel awkward and uncomfortable. Meh. They might get upset, cry, and pitch fits, but really...what else can they do? Just go to as much church as you want and say no to as many callings as you want. Trust me, they need you waaaaay more than you need the church. They won't cast you out.

But that all changes if you're gay or have a podcast...if you have a podcast with a large enough following.

The bigger problem you'll face is internal. It's difficult watching people torture themselves and others. It's difficult to be polite in the face of bigotry and ignorance. For many, this alone becomes intolerable.

One thing that I do believe however, is that human beings are adaptable. We can adapt to any situation given opportunity and time. If you want to adapt to Mormonism as a part or non-believer, then eventually you'll be able to do so comfortably. If you want to leave and find a more suitable environment, then that will also be difficult, but given enough time you'll likewise adapt. Heartache, angst, and confusion are not a permanent state of being. Given enough consistency, you'll find a new normal. You get to decide what that normal will be.

[Emower]

* Many of the core values taught

This is the kicker. Many people disagree with the core values taught. Everyone has to figure out what their bathwater looks like. Some like bubbles, some like perfume. Some like to fart in their bathwater, apparently. Looking at you RR. I didnt like what my baby looked like. So I threw it all out and got a dog instead. I like the dog way better. A lot less complicated than the baby.

[slavereeno]

* Many of the core values taught

This is the kicker. Many people disagree with the core values taught. Everyone has to figure out what their bathwater looks like.

Well, this is a good point, I have edited the list since "many" doesn't really work in that statement. I listed the 3 or 4 important ones elsewhere in the list anyway.

[slavereeno]

The bigger problem you'll face is internal. It's difficult watching people torture themselves and others. It's difficult to be polite in the face of bigotry and ignorance. For many, this alone becomes intolerable.

I really struggle with this right now. Because the people torturing themselves have often been DW and my kids. It kills me a little inside. If I end up leaving, it will primarily be for the benefit of my kids.

But really that's why I am asking this question in the first place. I can't say its all been bad, I can't say my mission didn't benefit me personally. However its not based on truth... and in the church you can't come out and say that.

I like watching movies like "Elf" at Christmas time, they even push belief in Santa Claus in those shows, but at the end of the day we all know there isn't really a fat man in a red suit at the north pole. We have learned to enjoy the symbolism. I just don't know if I can live with the symbolism of the church when so many of the people there are rational adults and still believe. (And less harm seems to come from the Santa story, and I really only have to hear about it 4 weeks out of the year.)

[Red Ryder]

From my experience this uncertainty doesn't ever go away until you completely walk away (which doesn't happen in a mixed faith marriage) and even then the indoctrination leaves residual residue that is extremely hard to extract. Just look at the people who have left but still participant in mormon discussions online. Time and a hell of a lot of indifference will heal you.

I'm convinced we suffer from post tramatic stress from our religious experience in differing degrees at differing times. Your posts are stirring up very old emotions and memories from my initial days of figuring this stuff out. It's hard. Really hard.

[foolmeonce]

If I could be so bold, I'd like to share some of my experiences with the baby side of your equation. (I didn't read to much of the bathwater side, it gives me the flashback heebie jeebies).

Since my wife, kids, and I are now almost 2 years into being separated from the Mormon Faith, we've had to wrestle through replacing much of the good that you outlined. It was obviously scary for us to walk away from the "good things" but DW and I were more scared of the bad ones so we made the plunge hopping that we'd come out ahead. We have. Here's my take.

* The community

Community is a human thing, not a Mormon thing, and community is what you make of it. While that's a simple and obvious statement, it took us a while to really believe and accept fully. Moving to a completely new region and not getting new friends assigned immediately was challenging and made us start to second guess ourselves. In fact, we felt like true immigrants as we learned how to live in a normal US culture instead of isolating ourselves in the Mormon subculture. But we pushed through and started making our own genuine friends who we share like minded interests with. As time has worn on we've come to learn that genuine friends beat assigned friends any day of the week.

* About 25% of the best of the Hymns

I was pretty surprised to realize how much of our HYMN book was ripped off from the protestants. I'll bet the 25% that you like, are the protestant favorites. Go check out a protestant traditional service and I'll bet you hear some pretty good music that you're looking for. If not, load some music on your cell phone. This was an issue for me initially as well, but as I've gone through my healing process, I've largely taken a break from HYMNS in general, but we all have our own paths.

* Striving for Excellence

DEFINITELY NOT just a Mormon thing. In fact, Mormon's aren't as good at it as they think they are. Imagine how much good they would do if members could independently align their own skills and interests to their service commitments? Imagine being able to sharpen and hone skills across an extended period of time rather than for a year or two until the "calling changes?" For the most part, you can't really achieve excellence in anything meaningful in a short period of time. In the Mormon service context, you end up spending all of your time on the steep end of the learning curve, only to be thrown to the bottom of it on something else just as you're starting to find your way. That's not excellence, that a lesson in endlessly managing through meaningless work and frustration.

* Teachings against Drugs, Alcohol and sex for teens.

Not just a Mormon thing, and Mormon's aren't good at that either. They pick their bad guys (GREEN TEA?? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???), then stick to their guns regardless of what the best medical and scientific research says. The "prophesy and commandment" becomes more important than the health of the people which is why you have Mormons eating tons of toxic processed sugar and synthetic diet drinks, but steering clear of healthy natural substances that have been consumed healthily for thousands of years.

* Help moving in/out

In my experience, this is a uniquely Mormon thing that isn't really replicated elsewhere. Sure friends sometimes help each other move, but in general people seem to be fairly self sufficient at it. If this is a big issue for you, then I'd recommend diverting a month or two worth of tithing into a savings fund and breaking it out to hire movers when you need it. Then enjoy your Saturdays taking care of your family instead of helping folks pack and move.

* The youth activities (if you remove the weird brainwashing aspects of them)

There are TONS of youth activities out there all without weird brainwashing. In fact, giving kids the ability to chose activities that align to their own interests makes THEM WANT to go. I have a lot less fighting in my house than I would if I were constantly trying to force my kids to go to another youth activity or ::HISSS:: fireside.

* The ward activities

See comments on community. As an example, this past weekend was our pack's family 2 night Cub Scout campout (yes, we were out enjoying God's creation on a Sunday). It was hands down the best community activity I've ever been to.

* Teachings of Love

Not just a Mormon thing. They really want you to think it is, but love is a human thing. The Church just works hard to make sure you think you need them to help you find and keep love in your life. Not true.

* Teachings of Humility

What they call humility is actually submissiveness and is not the same thing. I'm still learning what true humility is and where it's important, but the Mormon faith does not teach it.

* Family Night

Is much better when you don't have to put a Mormon wrapper on it. Period.

* Family focus

This is a Mormon mirage. I spend far more time with my family now then I did before when I was being torn between family and callings.

* Organized service opportunities

We've had to seek this one out, but we've found some strong groups that really do great meaningful service.

* Teachings of commitment to marriage

Not just a Mormon thing, and it can be a lot better outside of the faith. For instance, now I can tell my daughter to take care of herself first, get an education, figure out what gives her the most meaningful life, then get married and have kids. In so doing, she'll be a far superior mother and wife than if she were to get married while still growing up herself.

* Teachings of respect for others (if this could be made to include all others)

Not really a Mormon thing. In fact, Mormons are really bad at this. They actually teach primarily respect for those that fit the mold, and pity/resentment for the rest. There are so many groups, particularly those that do not succumb to fundamental practices, that teach respect for others so much better than the Mormon's.

* The 10% of the BoM stories that are inspiring if taught as fable instead of history

For me, this is closer to the dirt left on the baby then the baby itself. There's plenty of inspiring fiction out there, find a replacement.

* Teachings of modesty/cleanliness

You don't need the church for this.

* Prayer/Meditation

Not a Mormon thing, but you can replace what you currently have with something more meaningful as you eliminate artificial boundaries.

* Sense of Purpose

Definitely not a Mormon thing, but this is a challenging one to replace. It will take time as paradigms shift.

* Knowing about my ancestors/being connected to my past

If this is important to you, then there are plenty of other ways to get there beyond the church system, and outside of the church you don't have to spend time doing fake ordinances for them that take 5 hours all in per ancestor. Personally, I have found that learning about the human race has been far more interesting and fulfilling when I don't have to square outside knowledge to church teachings (an impossible task).

Stuff I don't Know where to put yet:
* Alcohol (I am glad that I am not an alcoholic like my uncle, but I wish I knew what it was like to have a drink now and then)

If you're an adult, this is a personal decision. Drink responsibly if you want, if you don't, then don't. Out in the grownup world, most people don't care either way.

* Sealings in the temple (this is the one thing I like to do with my wife in the temple)

Yeah, this will be a hard one to replace. But then hey, no garments!

* Bathtisms for the Dead (My kids seem to like doing it - if this were purely symbolic maybe? If i never did one again it would be ok with me.)

Kids like doing this because it's something different and not the same old boring. Get them into something meaningful to them and they won't miss the dip in the oxen bathtub.

* A single calling (If I had a say in what I wanted to do and could choose my availability this could be fun)

See above. Outside the church if you want a calling, then you do it. You don't wait to get called to the one you want and drudge through the ones you hate because that's what you're supposed to do. You simply help where, when, and how you are willing and able. This is way better on the outside.

* Missions (honestly mine was amazing and helped me grow so much as a person, I learned a second language, I gained confidence, learned to live on my own, to respect my parents. I hate sending my kids but love what its done for them when they get back... 2 years is too long and there is the washing of brains part that I dislike...)

Still looking for a good replacement for this. I really like the idea of kids taking time to give back. Service Corps might be a good alternative. Other faiths also have service missions that offer real humanitarian aid as opposed to knocking on doors all day which was the majority of my 2 years.

[moksha]

The idea of cutting away the BS and saving the rest does have an appeal. The LDS Church and community have many good things going for it. An authoritarian superstition-based church that places an undue emphasis on a narrow version of sexual morality, while letting many ethical considerations slide by the wayside is not one of those keepers.

That said, I really like the idea of home teaching. I miss having visits by home teachers, but that is probably the wave of the future. Members are feeling meeting weary. Too bad those days are past when an entire Mormon community would band together to help each other out. In my own ward, I realize the torch for such dedication and caring will not be passed once the current older members die out.

One change that is bound to happen, once the generation raised on video games assumes the reins of power, will be a rampant ennui to past church directions. If Church Authorities fail to adapt to that change then a major chunk of the membership will drift away and it will take an incredible amount of apologetic effort to deny when that occurs.

[slavereeno]

If I could be so bold, I'd like to share some of my experiences with the baby side of your equation.

Thank you! This was super helpful to me right now. I guess I need to know and be able to express to loved ones that distancing ourselves from the church is not the end of life as we know it. (or something along those lines)

The idea of cutting away the BS and saving the rest does have an appeal. The LDS Church and community have many good things going for it. An authoritarian superstition-based church that places an undue emphasis on a narrow version of sexual morality, while letting many ethical considerations slide by the wayside is not one of those keepers.

Yes some days I do wish they would "Community of Christ" the whole church or something along those lines. Most days I just want this all behind me somehow.

[Hagoth]

Part of the point of all this is to put the burden of proof back on the church.

Yes. You may feel gaslighted by members who think Mormonism is very reasonable when they are assembled en mass in a chapel or sunday school room echo chamber where everyone believes that same kind of illogical goo, but one-on-one it's just plain wacky, and there's no legitimate reason to blame someone for joining the other 99.95% (or whatever) of the human race that doesn't believe it. I have reached a point where I can sit through the most ridiculous church talks without clenching either teeth or fists. Their inability/unwillingness to step out into the scary world of reality is not my responsibility.

I remember hearing the baby and bathwater analogy in the midst of my faith crisis, when I felt like I had just realized that the water was so murky I hadn't been able to realize that there was never a baby there in the first place. I have come around to thinking that there is quite a lot of in the community, to the degree that the leaders will allow them to be good rather than merely performing circus acts of devotion and orthography. I still don't think there's a baby, but there are a few worthwhile tadpoles swimming around in there.

[Wonderment]

If I could be so bold, I'd like to share some of my experiences with the baby side of your equation. (I didn't read to much of the bathwater side, it gives me the flashback heebie jeebies).

Since my wife, kids, and I are now almost 2 years into being separated from the Mormon Faith, we've had to wrestle through replacing much of the good that you outlined. It was obviously scary for us to walk away from the "good things" but DW and I were more scared of the bad ones so we made the plunge hopping that we'd come out ahead. We have. Here's my take.

* The community

Community is a human thing, not a Mormon thing, and community is what you make of it. While that's a simple and obvious statement, it took us a while to really believe and accept fully. Moving to a completely new region and not getting new friends assigned immediately was challenging and made us start to second guess ourselves. In fact, we felt like true immigrants as we learned how to live in a normal US culture instead of isolating ourselves in the Mormon subculture. But we pushed through and started making our own genuine friends who we share like minded interests with. As time has worn on we've come to learn that genuine friends beat assigned friends any day of the week.

* About 25% of the best of the Hymns

I was pretty surprised to realize how much of our HYMN book was ripped off from the protestants. I'll bet the 25% that you like, are the protestant favorites. Go check out a protestant traditional service and I'll bet you hear some pretty good music that you're looking for. If not, load some music on your cell phone. This was an issue for me initially as well, but as I've gone through my healing process, I've largely taken a break from HYMNS in general, but we all have our own paths.

* Striving for Excellence

DEFINITELY NOT just a Mormon thing. In fact, Mormon's aren't as good at it as they think they are. Imagine how much good they would do if members could independently align their own skills and interests to their service commitments? Imagine being able to sharpen and hone skills across an extended period of time rather than for a year or two until the "calling changes?" For the most part, you can't really achieve excellence in anything meaningful in a short period of time. In the Mormon service context, you end up spending all of your time on the steep end of the learning curve, only to be thrown to the bottom of it on something else just as you're starting to find your way. That's not excellence, that a lesson in endlessly managing through meaningless work and frustration.

* Teachings against Drugs, Alcohol and sex for teens.

Not just a Mormon thing, and Mormon's aren't good at that either. They pick their bad guys (GREEN TEA?? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???), then stick to their guns regardless of what the best medical and scientific research says. The "prophesy and commandment" becomes more important than the health of the people which is why you have Mormons eating tons of toxic processed sugar and synthetic diet drinks, but steering clear of healthy natural substances that have been consumed healthily for thousands of years.

* Help moving in/out

In my experience, this is a uniquely Mormon thing that isn't really replicated elsewhere. Sure friends sometimes help each other move, but in general people seem to be fairly self sufficient at it. If this is a big issue for you, then I'd recommend diverting a month or two worth of tithing into a savings fund and breaking it out to hire movers when you need it. Then enjoy your Saturdays taking care of your family instead of helping folks pack and move.

* The youth activities (if you remove the weird brainwashing aspects of them)

There are TONS of youth activities out there all without weird brainwashing. In fact, giving kids the ability to chose activities that align to their own interests makes THEM WANT to go. I have a lot less fighting in my house than I would if I were constantly trying to force my kids to go to another youth activity or ::HISSS:: fireside.

* The ward activities

See comments on community. As an example, this past weekend was our pack's family 2 night Cub Scout campout (yes, we were out enjoying God's creation on a Sunday). It was hands down the best community activity I've ever been to.

* Teachings of Love

Not just a Mormon thing. They really want you to think it is, but love is a human thing. The Church just works hard to make sure you think you need them to help you find and keep love in your life. Not true.

* Teachings of Humility

What they call humility is actually submissiveness and is not the same thing. I'm still learning what true humility is and where it's important, but the Mormon faith does not teach it.

* Family Night

Is much better when you don't have to put a Mormon wrapper on it. Period.

* Family focus

This is a Mormon mirage. I spend far more time with my family now then I did before when I was being torn between family and callings.

* Organized service opportunities

We've had to seek this one out, but we've found some strong groups that really do great meaningful service.

* Teachings of commitment to marriage

Not just a Mormon thing, and it can be a lot better outside of the faith. For instance, now I can tell my daughter to take care of herself first, get an education, figure out what gives her the most meaningful life, then get married and have kids. In so doing, she'll be a far superior mother and wife than if she were to get married while still growing up herself.

* Teachings of respect for others (if this could be made to include all others)

Not really a Mormon thing. In fact, Mormons are really bad at this. They actually teach primarily respect for those that fit the mold, and pity/resentment for the rest. There are so many groups, particularly those that do not succumb to fundamental practices, that teach respect for others so much better than the Mormon's.

* The 10% of the BoM stories that are inspiring if taught as fable instead of history

For me, this is closer to the dirt left on the baby then the baby itself. There's plenty of inspiring fiction out there, find a replacement.

* Teachings of modesty/cleanliness

You don't need the church for this.

* Prayer/Meditation

Not a Mormon thing, but you can replace what you currently have with something more meaningful as you eliminate artificial boundaries.

* Sense of Purpose

Definitely not a Mormon thing, but this is a challenging one to replace. It will take time as paradigms shift.

* Knowing about my ancestors/being connected to my past

If this is important to you, then there are plenty of other ways to get there beyond the church system, and outside of the church you don't have to spend time doing fake ordinances for them that take 5 hours all in per ancestor. Personally, I have found that learning about the human race has been far more interesting and fulfilling when I don't have to square outside knowledge to church teachings (an impossible task).

Stuff I don't Know where to put yet:
* Alcohol (I am glad that I am not an alcoholic like my uncle, but I wish I knew what it was like to have a drink now and then)

If you're an adult, this is a personal decision. Drink responsibly if you want, if you don't, then don't. Out in the grownup world, most people don't care either way.

* Sealings in the temple (this is the one thing I like to do with my wife in the temple)

Yeah, this will be a hard one to replace. But then hey, no garments!

* Bathtisms for the Dead (My kids seem to like doing it - if this were purely symbolic maybe? If i never did one again it would be ok with me.)

Kids like doing this because it's something different and not the same old boring. Get them into something meaningful to them and they won't miss the dip in the oxen bathtub.

* A single calling (If I had a say in what I wanted to do and could choose my availability this could be fun)

See above. Outside the church if you want a calling, then you do it. You don't wait to get called to the one you want and drudge through the ones you hate because that's what you're supposed to do. You simply help where, when, and how you are willing and able. This is way better on the outside.

* Missions (honestly mine was amazing and helped me grow so much as a person, I learned a second language, I gained confidence, learned to live on my own, to respect my parents. I hate sending my kids but love what its done for them when they get back... 2 years is too long and there is the washing of brains part that I dislike...)

Still looking for a good replacement for this. I really like the idea of kids taking time to give back. Service Corps might be a good alternative. Other faiths also have service missions that offer real humanitarian aid as opposed to knocking on doors all day which was the majority of my 2 years.

This is excellent, and I am saving it ! You don't have to give up all the good things, as those are found in many churches or spiritual communities, including the opportunity to serve others and share your understanding with them.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful, excellent, very sound support and feedback given here. - Wndr.