How do I teach primary?

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Jeffret
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by Jeffret » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:06 am

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am
One determines it by the complaints one gets from his co-teacher or the kids' parents.
Ah, so it's externally determined based upon what others think? :)

Have you gotten complaints from the kids' parents? Tell them they can teach it -- that should help quiet things down.
slavereeno wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am
I have taught a little about relativity and the big bang. My co-teacher "explained" to me that the big bang violated the law of conservation of matter so it was obviously out, and that God organized already existing matter to create the universe. :roll: I was about to ask him if the earth was flat or round, but I was afraid of the answer I would get.
Sounds like you should be teaching more science if that's the response.

(You may well understand the following already, but I wanted to ramble on about it a little bit.)

There isn't actually a law of conservation of matter. The best known equation in science, Einstein's E = m * c^2, is about as simple a refutation as possible. Mass and energy have an equivalence and can be converted from one to the other. As the Wikipedia article states,
Matter is not perfectly conserved

The principle of matter conservation may be considered as an approximate physical law that is true only in the classical sense, without consideration of special relativity and quantum mechanics. It is approximately true except in certain high energy applications.

A particular difficulty with the idea of conservation of "matter" is that "matter" is not a well-defined word scientifically, and when particles that are considered to be "matter" (such as electrons and positrons) are annihilated to make photons (which are often not considered matter) then conservation of matter does not take place over time, even within isolated systems. However, matter is conserved to such an extent that matter conservation may be safely assumed in chemical reactions and all situations in which radioactivity and nuclear reactions are not involved.

Even when matter is not conserved, the collection of mass and energy within the system are conserved.
Your co-teacher needn't worry that such a significant detail has eluded the physicists who have studied cosmology and the origins of the universe. As proposed, the Big Bang Theory doesn't violate the law of conservation of mass and energy. It's all there, at that instant of creation, just packed into an extremely dense, extremely high energy clump. From a scientific perspective, the Big Bang Theory is extremely unsatisfying, as it adamantly refuses to provide any explanation as to what happened before or at that momentary instant.


Your co-teacher also needs to learn more about Mormon theology, as there isn't really a clear doctrine about how the universe came to be. The only thing Mormon doctrine is really certain about is that it posits the existence of a creator, who created everything. There is no clear doctrine of how the creator was created, at best Hinckley didn't know that we taught that. There is nothing about how the creator created the universe. There is nothing about whether the creator exists within the universe or outside it. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism states,
The book of Abraham states that God's physical dominion (throne) is located near a star called Kolob (Abr. 3:2-3). While it might seem reasonable to suppose that this refers to some distinguishing feature of the universe, all efforts to identify it are speculative and not authoritative. Wherever Kolob is located, its purpose is to "govern" all planets that are of the same "order" as the Earth (Abr. 3:9). Since Abraham says no more than that, it is not clear whether he is speaking physically, metaphorically, or allegorically. Thus, "to govern" might mean a physical bonding as with gravity, while "order" could conceivably mean planets similar to the Earth in size, or planets in the same region of this galaxy or even in the entire Milky Way galaxy. Kolob was also said by the Egyptians to provide the light for all stars, including that for our sun (Abr. Facsimile 2). Even so, Latter-day Saints have made no definitive comment on the meaning of these passages.
The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on Matter, acknowledges QM, relativity, and the laws of conservation of mass and energy and mass-energy equivalence. It disregards the notion of creation ex nihilo, which is about as clear and far as it gets in Mormon theology. It doesn't mention the Big Bang Theory directly, but nothing it says is inconsistent with it. Mormon doctrine and the Big Bang Theory agree in disregarding creation ex nihilo.


Basically when it comes down to it, not knowing is the most justifiable approach, even when it comes to Mormon doctrine.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:57 pm

Jeffret wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:06 am
From a scientific perspective, the Big Bang Theory is extremely unsatisfying, as it adamantly refuses to provide any explanation as to what happened before or at that momentary instant.
In and of itself yes, but it does a decent job of explaining how things rolled out after the singularity.

As I understand it though there are some new thoughts on the universe being an oscillation, that at some point it will stop expanding and eventually start contracting and may end up collapsing all back to a single point again causing the process to begin anew.

There aren't any definitive explanations though, from science or theology. Nothing very satisfying anyway.

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Jeffret
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by Jeffret » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:57 pm
In and of itself yes, but it does a decent job of explaining how things rolled out after the singularity.

As I understand it though there are some new thoughts on the universe being an oscillation, that at some point it will stop expanding and eventually start contracting and may end up collapsing all back to a single point again causing the process to begin anew.
Yeah, it's the best working theory we've got so far. Good scientists will continue to examine it critically and consider its limitations and possible weaknesses.

The question has long been, What happens billions of years in the future? What is the end state? Does it continue expanding forever? Or does it eventually start contracting? I haven't kept up on the latest thoughts on that, but I suspect it's something we'll never know the answer to.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:53 am

This weeks lesson: The pioneers Show their faith in Jesus Christ.
Explain that to have faith is to believe and trust that something is real and true even though we have not seen it with our own eyes.
Help the children understand that when they attend Church meetings and make other right choices, they show that they are developing faith in Jesus Christ.
The pioneers left their homes and traveled west because of their faith in Jesus Christ and in the truthfulness of his restored gospel. This faith helped them through the difficult times.
There is a miracle mentioned, Mary Fielding Smith lost her oxen (because someone hid them in an attempt to steal them) she prayed and then found the oxen.
The captain of the company told Mary it would be foolish for her to go west because she was not prepared. He said she would never make it to the Salt Lake Valley and would be a burden on the rest of the company. He told her to return to Winter Quarters and wait to come to the Salt Lake Valley until she could get more help. Mary calmly told the captain that she did not need his help. Furthermore, she said, she would enter the valley before he did!
Strong women quote?

Mary F Smith asks two men to give a blessing with oil to an ox.
It must have been difficult for Brother Grant to lose his wife and child, but he continued to follow the Church leaders. Several years later he was permitted to see a vision of the spirit world. He saw his wife with their little daughter in her arms. She showed the child to Brother Grant and said, “Here is little Margaret.” Brother Grant saw that although the child had died on the plains and the grave had been disturbed by wolves, his daughter was safe in the spirit world with her mother.
She moved back to Winter Quarters, where President Brigham Young advised her not to start on the difficult journey to the Salt Lake Valley with a new baby. He did ask, however, if she could lend her oxen and wagons to help someone else make the journey. Without hesitation, Lydia gave them. Two years later Lydia was able to gather more equipment and make the journey to the Salt Lake Valley with her children.
Most of these stories are about women.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:02 am

You could show the part in legacy where she lays hands on her oxen to heal it. :D

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:46 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:02 am
You could show the part in legacy where she lays hands on her oxen to heal it. :D
Ok is that the same story? Cause in this version she asks two priesthood holders to do it.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am

slavereeno wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:46 am
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:02 am
You could show the part in legacy where she lays hands on her oxen to heal it. :D
Ok is that the same story? Cause in this version she asks two priesthood holders to do it.
Pretty sure, but great question. Is this another case of correlation covering up women doing priesthood stuff?

Reuben
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by Reuben » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:40 pm

Help the children understand that when they attend Church meetings and make other right choices, they show that they are developing faith in Jesus Christ.
The one example they give of right choices is going to church meetings. This is crap on a stick. Following Jesus is the best way to develop faith in him. I don't remember the New Testament making a big deal about Jesus dutifully going to church.

Replace it with something actually worthwhile. Kindness. Service. Lifting, loving and healing... you know, like Jesus did.

Maybe throw in calling out Pharisees on their hypocrisy as a right choice, too.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:29 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am
slavereeno wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:46 am
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:02 am
You could show the part in legacy where she lays hands on her oxen to heal it. :D
Ok is that the same story? Cause in this version she asks two priesthood holders to do it.
Pretty sure, but great question. Is this another case of correlation covering up women doing priesthood stuff?
This is what I was wondering. It mentions they used oil.

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:31 am

Reuben wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:40 pm
Help the children understand that when they attend Church meetings and make other right choices, they show that they are developing faith in Jesus Christ.
The one example they give of right choices is going to church meetings. This is crap on a stick. Following Jesus is the best way to develop faith in him. I don't remember the New Testament making a big deal about Jesus dutifully going to church.

Replace it with something actually worthwhile. Kindness. Service. Lifting, loving and healing... you know, like Jesus did.

Maybe throw in calling out Pharisees on their hypocrisy as a right choice, too.
I am trying to do this for my part. My co-teacher got into polygamy because of the multiple wives of Hyram. He told the kids in essence the only polygamy was with widows who needed someone to take care of them. I threw out a correction and he chimed in that was only in Colorado City, not in our church... Ugg. I didn't want to get into a debate during a primary lesson so I changed the subject. Not sure if I did the right thing or not.. :(

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:48 pm

ok i may be getting better at this...

yesterday was "The Fall of Adam" I focused on not being judged for Adams transgressions. I let a bunch of the kids tell stories about how unfair it was when a couple of people ruin something for everyone. They had lots of examples from school. I then led that into: how can we avoid judging people because they part of a group, whether it be ethnic, political, religious etc. They gave lots of other examples. I then said that I hear people in the church often say that all their friends are Mormons so they already now they have good standards. Many of the kids said they have friends that are not Mormons who have their same standards (one of these was my own daughter, who incidentally offered that none of her friends from school are Mormon :D ). Then they suggested we not judge others just because they weren't Mormon that we should get the know the person first.

Baby steps...

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Linked
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by Linked » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:11 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:48 pm
Then they suggested we not judge others just because they weren't Mormon that we should get the know the person first.

Baby steps...
Nice work!!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 pm

It'll all be undone I am sure. My co-teacher looked like I had just kicked his puppy.

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MoPag
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by MoPag » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:51 am

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:48 pm
ok i may be getting better at this...

yesterday was "The Fall of Adam" I focused on not being judged for Adams transgressions. I let a bunch of the kids tell stories about how unfair it was when a couple of people ruin something for everyone. They had lots of examples from school. I then led that into: how can we avoid judging people because they part of a group, whether it be ethnic, political, religious etc. They gave lots of other examples. I then said that I hear people in the church often say that all their friends are Mormons so they already now they have good standards. Many of the kids said they have friends that are not Mormons who have their same standards (one of these was my own daughter, who incidentally offered that none of her friends from school are Mormon :D ). Then they suggested we not judge others just because they weren't Mormon that we should get the know the person first.

Baby steps...
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Good job on fulfilling your NOM calling!


slavereeno wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 pm
It'll all be undone I am sure. My co-teacher looked like I had just kicked his puppy.
Oh screw that guy! You just keep teaching those kids to be loving and inclusive. Good job on letting them vent and tell you their problems. Keep doing this, and they will like and trust you more than that guy anyway.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:53 am

The background story for my lesson this past week was Adam, Eve, Cain and Able and the sacrifices they offered. I used this to teach the principle of having compassion for others from "The Book of Joy" that I am currently reading. We talked about sacrifice being giving up something good for something better. I let the kids give examples of when they gave up something for themselves so they could have a better relationship with others. There were a lot of great examples.

My favorite example was a non-member friend that was accompanying one of my students said they bought a dozen donuts instead of 7 coffees so they could share with a greater number of people. The kids were about to jump down her throat for mentioning coffee, so I diverted their chastisement as quickly as possible. :twisted:

My co-teacher will be teaching next time, two weeks from now (after steak conference) so I am off this for a while. He pulled me aside and said he really enjoyed teaching with me and said I was one of the most non-judgmental people he has ever worked with. His wife never comes to church, so he brings his daughters by himself, and at least in this ward they have never given him higher callings. He's been teaching primary for like a decade in our ward. Totally TBM, with lots of the old school crazy stuff like when he taught that polygamy was only practiced to take care of widows, or the creation was literal, etc. I genuinely like this guy he has taught a few of my kids in primary and I know his wife struggles with church stuff in some way, but what I have heard is mostly gossip so I've never paid enough attention to it to remember any of it.

Frankly the whole situation makes my head spin, so many of these people are really good people and their heads are full of stuff that is simply impossibly false. I just don't want my own kids to be in the situation of basing their life on things that simply are not true. :cry:

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MoPag
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by MoPag » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:50 am

Your co-teacher sounds like he could really use a good friend like you.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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moksha
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by moksha » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:17 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:39 pm
moksha wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:30 pm
No matter what, Primary should not be about grooming the kids to obey Church Authorities.
It ended up being my team-teacher's week to teach and he focused on the "obey the sabbath" part of the lesson.
How quickly they forget the words of Jesus, that the Sabbath was made for Mankind and not Mankind being made for the Sabbath. The only time I can possibly see obedience to a celebration being requested would be in the case of bead throwers at the New Orleans Mardi Gras hoping to see a portion of the female anatomy in exchange for the beads. I assume they do that to prepare for the fasting during the Lenten season starting on Ash Wednesday.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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slavereeno
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:08 pm

So I am dredging this old thread up again, because I am still teaching.

Its now a Sunday school class, not primary anymore. I didn't have too much trouble last year, due to the new schedule I only have to teach once a month. When its my turn, I usually start late and let the kids talk about their week so in the end I am spending about 30 mins once a month teaching and another 15-20 minutes preparing for the lesson. Last year it was New Testament and I would usually pick one principle and just get the kids talking about that principle.

This year we are doing Book of Mormon in Come Follow Me. There will be months, I am sure, when I can just find and teach a principle form the BoM, it does have some good stuff in there. I know some people love it, but the BoM has always been my least favorite scripture to read. Aside from a couple of stories and the sermon on the mount, the book always rubbed me the wrong way. And the CFM lesson guides are textbook deception and gas-lighting to my now post-mormon eyes.

It was my week and after I taught the lesson on the "Introduction and Title Pages to the BoM" I felt gross inside.

On the upside DW and I had a pretty good discussion about her lesson in GD.

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Linked
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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by Linked » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:17 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:08 pm
So I am dredging this old thread up again, because I am still teaching.

Its now a Sunday school class, not primary anymore. I didn't have too much trouble last year, due to the new schedule I only have to teach once a month. When its my turn, I usually start late and let the kids talk about their week so in the end I am spending about 30 mins once a month teaching and another 15-20 minutes preparing for the lesson. Last year it was New Testament and I would usually pick one principle and just get the kids talking about that principle.

This year we are doing Book of Mormon in Come Follow Me. There will be months, I am sure, when I can just find and teach a principle form the BoM, it does have some good stuff in there. I know some people love it, but the BoM has always been my least favorite scripture to read. Aside from a couple of stories and the sermon on the mount, the book always rubbed me the wrong way. And the CFM lesson guides are textbook deception and gas-lighting to my now post-mormon eyes.

It was my week and after I taught the lesson on the "Introduction and Title Pages to the BoM" I felt gross inside.

On the upside DW and I had a pretty good discussion about her lesson in GD.
I'm with you on the horrible lesson guides. I used to enjoy reading through lesson manuals, I thought they had a lot of good information. After a broken shelf they are just insidious. Questions like "How do the testimonies of the 3 and 8 witnesses strengthen your testimony?" are so leading, they aren't there to help you find truth, they are there to deepen your indoctrination. It's gross.

Good luck getting thru it all this year.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: How do I teach primary?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:31 pm

Well... You could always teach the real truth about the BoM and get yourself fired.

Start teaching about magic rocks and hats, and see how long you last? :shock:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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