The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

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Hagoth
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The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Hagoth » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm sure many of you agree with me about the silliness of the idea that our 85% Christian nation is suffering massive persecution at the hands of enemies who insist on wishing them "Happy Holidays."

Personally, I believe there is a war on Christmas, but it's christians waging war against their own conscience and scapegoating their guilt onto others. When I was a kid everyone was freaking out about the commercialization of Christmas. For you youngsters, to understand what I'm talking about all you need to do is watch A Charlie Brown Christmas.

But over the years American Christianity has embraced the over-the-top commercialism to the point that they melt down if Starbucks doesn't have a snowman on their cup (I still can't figure out how that was disrespectful to Jesus). I assume that it can be blamed on the Prosperity Gospel worldview, but now you show your love for Jesus by stimulating the economy with as much spending as your credit cards can endure because that way Jesus wins instead of the terrorists. Then you read all of that stuff in the New Testament about divesting yourself of wealth to give to the poor and it makes your brain hurt. What to do? You can either do what the Bible says or you can redirect the blame to someone else by reinventing yourself as the victim.

BTW, Happy Holidays is a time-honored Christian greeting that refers to the Christian holidays that span the month from the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on December 6 to Epiphany on January 6 when the Magi showed up with a bomb (Life of Brian joke), and was used by lots of good Christian folk who had never heard of Ramadan or Kwanzaa until Rush Limbaugh and gang came along and gave it a black eye.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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No Tof
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by No Tof » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:01 pm

Thanks for that informative post. I fear I was one of those who wanted to keep it Merry Christmas instead of happy Holidays......

Now I cheerfully use only Happy Holidays to all my friends. Now I can relate how it is really more christian to do so.

Happy Holidays.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.
Rumi

Wonderment
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Wonderment » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:23 pm

The so-called "war on Christmas" was a sleazy attempt on behalf of people like Bill O'Reilly at Fox News and talk radio shock jocks like Limbaugh to gin up resentment and instigate culture wars. It is a complete hoax, meant to attract listeners or viewers with the scare tactic that "the left" or "Muslims", or "people of color" are trying to take Christmas away from Christian America by saying "Happy Holidays." Instead of saying the 9 syllable "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" , some people shorten the greeting to the 5 syllable "Happy Holidays", and for some reason, that creates hysteria on the part of media shock jocks. As if American retail stores are going to abandon the celebration of Christmas -- how ridiculous. App. 25% of their revenue is generated during November and December. The "war on Christmas" is a conspiracy theory that never happened, but that doesn't stop people like O'Reilly and right wing religious leaders from looking for a scapegoat or a villain during this time of year. - :roll: Wndr.

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Not Buying It
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:18 am

Thanks heavens to combat the "War of Christmas" we have #lighttheworldiampartofamarketingcampaign.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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RubinHighlander
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:35 am

Since the days of starting my own family with kids I had to decide how much of the Santa thing to play up with them. It was played on me in my younger years, but I was never a fan of that big lie. It was just another form of trying to guilt little people into good behavior and compliance, very much how the LDS church treats it's members.

I think the thing that turned me into a bit a of a curmudgeon with Christmas was not only the Santa lie and the growing mercantile madness, but my discovery of it's origins. As most of you older NOMs know from experience, our early days were fraught with anit-Catholic apostasy rhetoric. I had taken a deep dive into the history of early Christianity and how it evolved from the NT into tens of thousands of different faiths claiming Christ. Then I discovered the origin of our holidays or holy days, the melding of early Christian and Pagan ideas. Easter did not originate for the purpose of celebrating Christ, but the worshiping the goddess Ishtar in the spring; worshipers presenting her with fertility symbols—eggs and rabbits.

Where Mormons were so strict in things like the WOW and the restoration of all things, how could they continue the old traditions of the pagan holidays? Christ seemed lost in those messy celebrations. I caused me cogdis at times; it seems the JWs had it right. Then I backed off on my zealous pursuit of pure Christianity and just settled into more simplistic views, what else could I do. But I never held to the Santa part, never lied to my kids and we stuck to the Christ birth story.

Back in them days I did bristle a bit at the anti-Christmas people, but only if it was anti-Christ. Also at the folks trying to get prayer out of the schools. Now I'm on the other side. I'm not anti-christ, but I hate the zealous Christian movements and I hate any organized religion in general that tries to push it's will and ways.

We still put up a tree and decorate a bit, but it's much more NOMish and mellow than TBM days of yore. This year we even put up a holiday tree, actually it will be a tree we keep up all year and just change the hanging decor. DW and I are kind of hippy outdoorsy and we love cool looking dead trees with lots of twisty character. Junipers exhibit a lot of these features and we see so many trees we want to take home when we are gallivanting around the deserts of Utah. So we went out and got one and took it home. I power washed it and did some dowel work to reattach the branches (so it would fit into truck and house), then we decided to paint it gold. So here it is, out holiday tree:
GoldHolidayTree-1.jpg
GoldHolidayTree-1.jpg (207.89 KiB) Viewed 4889 times
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GoldHolidayTree-2.jpg (248.72 KiB) Viewed 4889 times
Back to Egypt and the golden calf, we've opted for a golden tree.
Happy Holidays! Happy Nommy Days!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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Hagoth
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:49 am

Awesome tree, Ruben.

When I was single and taking a break from church activity I used to do a Halloween tree instead of a Christmas tree, but then after I had done a lot of research about the origins of the holidays I switched to a pagan tree. It looked like a Christmas tree but everything on it had to do with celebrations of traditions that are much older than Christianity (red and white berries for the blood and semen of the Forest King, etc). I was not really a pagan but I enjoyed inviting friends over for a yuletide pagan ritual where we passed a loving cup, placed soul cakes on the hearth for the visiting spirits, rekindled the Yule log, etc. I didn't believe any of it but I did it just because it was fun and seemed somehow more authentic to me.

Oddly enough, not-yet-Mrs.-Hagoth was so impressed by the pagan tree and ceremony that it was a significant factor in us getting back together after her mission and eventually marrying. Is that a pagan miracle?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Corsair
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Corsair » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:55 am

RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:35 am
We still put up a tree and decorate a bit, but it's much more NOMish and mellow than TBM days of yore.
I saw the dramatic pictures of your tree before I read your post. I really like your tree. To me, the symbolism hearkens more towards the crucifixtion rather than the birth of Jesus. It's almost a stark notice of the atonement to come.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:14 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:49 am
Awesome tree, Ruben.

It looked like a Christmas tree but everything on it had to do with celebrations of traditions that are much older than Christianity (red and white berries for the blood and semen of the Forest King, etc). I was not really a pagan but I enjoyed inviting friends over for a yuletide pagan ritual where we passed a loving cup, placed soul cakes on the hearth for the visiting spirits, rekindled the Yule log, etc....Is that a pagan miracle?
Thanks Hagoth and Corsair!

I think I'll paint up a metal pole for our family gathering this December and do the Costanza "Festivus" celebration this year. "Stop crying and fight your father!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX55AzGku5Y

Also this:

Image
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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moksha
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by moksha » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:33 pm

Image
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Mad Jax
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Mad Jax » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:28 am

I'm going to one up the "traditions" crowd by holding gladiatorial combat games throughout the entire festival of Saturnalia.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by MerrieMiss » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:47 am

Even as a TBM I never understood this. Happy Holidays obviously encompasses all of the Christian holidays of the season, Hanukkah, New Years, etc. And of course Christmas is an all pagan/Christian combo. I think as with so many other facets of our culture, the divide between the zealots is increasing and the moderates are being drowned out.

And a particular pet peeve of mine? The 12 days of Christmas. They're AFTER Christmas, people!

Thoughtful
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Re: The True Meaning of (the war on) Christmas

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:24 am

What I think is interesting is that older stories--like pioneer stories about Christmas, little house on the prairie, and the ones they tell at the Christmas devotional--all feature Santa (as a non literal figure representing love). Small, homemade, meaningful gifts to express love to others. Not a lot about Jesus. Now it's like Jesus or BUST. And Santa is SATAN.
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My mom had a book, "unplug the Christmas machine." All about battling against the horrible commercialism that wants to ruin everyone's lives and their children's lives and give everyone a competitive sense of entitlement.

I'll be honest--I LOVE the commercialism of Christmas. I adore the lights, the presents (giving and receiving). The food. The card games late into the night. The movies. I love me some Christmas. I get angry when people complain about playing Christmas songs as some kind of personal affrontery. Christmas keeps me from getting too depressed in the winter.

I'm also not financially stressed, so I can buy my kids and spouse whatever. We provide an entire Christmas every year for another family because we can--but yes I go whole hog on us and some years I spend a lot on my kids. I buy whatever they need right now and then also a few things they want. So it seems like the war on Christmas is a war of principles between the have-nots and the haves. I bet that if people had more, they would hate Christmas commercialism less. There's a lot of bottom looking upward flavor of Pride in the church.

A friend of mine growing up had a beautiful Jade tree that they used as a "tree of life" at Christmas time. I liked that. It just takes a really long time to grow a jade tree so I guess I better get started.

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