To Out Oneself or Not - Opinions on This Please

[NewLight]

To out yourself publicly, or not… what thoughts do you have on this?

Let me preface this post by saying that that all members of my immediate family are out of the church as are my siblings. My wife’s siblings, for the most part, know about us as well and have been understanding and respectful. Some are not in the church much at this point anyway. So, if I were to out myself publicly, there would be virtually no pressure on the family front.

I have also discussed my decision to quit attending with both my current bishop (he sincerely wanted to understand, so it was a good experience) as well as a former bishop and his wife who came by to visit and see what was going on with us last summer. He and his wife also listened and tried their best to understand. Those are the only three people who, from my ward, know the true story from the “horse’s mouth” on why I left. I tried to be very sensitive and respectful during those conversations with the goal to build a link or bridge between the nonbeliever, me, and the active and believing.

The one thing that is very sad to me is how infrequently that true deep communication has taken place between me and others on why I left. I see the same challenge from others – friends and family are to afraid to ask and we on the outskirts hesitate to tell them, not wanting to cause problems. The result can be a mammoth in the room as many of you here know. And the one thing we all yearn for is to be accepted and understood. Being as active as we once were (I was in the bishopric and wife had leadership callings as well) makes it all the more difficult to know that my reasons for leaving are largely unknown or probably downright incorrect in the minds of members in my area.

Last summer, probably, as much for me as for my intended audience, I wrote an essay I thought would be a gentle explanation to those of my Mormon tribe I left behind. It is here on my website right now http://makingthemostofit.org/inspiratio ... troll.html, but I have no links to it, so one would have to know how to look to view it. It’s not like my website comes up on the first three pages of a google search anyway

Is it worth posting a link to this on Facebook? I’m gone from the church at this point and have no intention on returning, but would something like this possibly help a leader or somebody who is “dealing” with an apostate family member they are trying to rescue? Would such an essay be helpful in building a bridge? I have tried to be as gentle in my presentation as I know how to be.

Thanks in advance for the input!

[Red Ryder]

Normally I would say "Out" is a three letter word and leave it at that. Mormons won't ever truly understand why we all leave so save the emotional energy for your new hobbies you do on Sunday.

However, since the true essence of why people leave is the church's problem then why not shout it from the roof tops? As the church's "truth crisis" continues to unfold, Mormons leaving the church should be a normal problem by now. In 2018, every member should personally know someone who has left the church and their reasons why.

I say tell everyone you know! Post it.

[Jeffret]

What are your goals in doing so? What do you hope to accomplish?

[nibbler]

Interesting analogy. If I were to share your story I'd anticipate someone saying that I had a testimony in the "wrong" things... even though the church continues merrily along placing focus on all the wrong things in correlated lessons at church.

[Emower]

There are some considerations to think about when outing yourself. Some may apply, none may apply. The biggest things to think about would be family, sounds like you have that covered. Work? You wouldnt want your work environment to be affected. How about Church? Sounds like you are done with Church anyway, so thats not a big deal. Although, if you show back up in the pews expect to be treated differently than if they think you are inactive.

You are correct that meaningful conversations rarely happen about why you leave. But, being open in my mind can only help in letting people know that you are now owning it, and willing to talk about it. I say go for it.

[NewLight]

Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it.

The motivation to do it is solely to help open the eyes of leadership and let them know that people don't leave the church for the "Sunday School" reasons (i.e. they have sinned or want to sin, they have been offended, etc.). Maybe if some leader reads it, they will have more compassion when a member approaches them who is struggling.

Also, it would be good if it made its way to a TBM who, as a result of reading it, develops more compassion and empathy toward a friend or family member who reveals that they are leaving or have left the church. If it gets that TBM to listen and try to understand a friend or family member who is departing the church instead of barraging them with a bunch of "LDS life preservers" (i.e. a thoughtless comment, a scolding, passive aggressive actions, etc.) it will have served some purpose.

At the same time, I realize that if the time is taken by TBM friends and acquaintances to read, probably a pretty high percentage of them will finish it thinking, "oh that poor brother NewLight - it's such a shame he is lost". We all know people can't read the gentlest of writings that don't 100% support the church without thinking they are "anti-Mormon" if they are not ready with an open mind.

Still mulling this over, but I will report back here if I end up posting it.

[Jeffret]

Maybe your experience is different from mine, but I expect very few people will read it. I read it and I thought it was very good. It's got some similarities to my coming out essay -- starts with a story, has some analogies and comparisons, is somewhat vague on the details. I didn't post mine on Facebook. There wasn't really a Facebook at the time. I don't think hardly anybody has ever read mine. That's fine, though. Mine was really mostly for me, my wife, and our older kids. Some others may have found it useful, but I certainly have no expectation that it helped anyone with the goals you describe.

As a general rule, people on Facebook don't read more than the first line or headline. If they do open the linked article, they usually don't read more than the first page. If you made a short, simple statement about leaving the church, some people would probably read that. That might not do much to accomplish your goals of getting leaders and believers to understand or to change their views. Though, I think few of them would read through your whole post and understand any better that way.

I think the real question is how public you want to be about your religion and your faith transition. Do you want to share that publicly? Do you want to share that on Facebook? If that's the case, then I think you might as well share it.

I really doubt sharing it will do anything to achieve true deep communication about why you left. If believers manage to get through it, it won't cause them to change their minds, they'll still be afraid of what you might know, and it won't induce them to have deep, meaningful conversations with you.


(Here's my article on my leaving: Transitions.)

[NewLight]

It's a good write up, Jeffret. We share a similar experience of performing a priesthood blessing we felt "led by the Spirit" in which did not come to pass. Mine was with my second daughter who had a rough time at delivery who I felt would recover and "be normal". In short, next month she celebrates her 25th birthday and my my wife and I have guardianship of her and she lives at home with significant disabilities. We will care for her until we no longer can. Blessings like that, as you know firsthand, really mess with you!

I agree with the point you make about few people ultimately reading a disclosure like we have both written and I confess that as I put together it probably provided more therapy just to me. I would agree that many people won't read it because of the length and they don't want to hear what an "apostate" may say, fearing that damage could come to their unshakable testimony.

I guess at some point we just need to act knowing that whatever happens, the situation is what it is. Still not sure if I will post it...

[Hagoth]

I agree with most of what has been said. If you write a manifesto, no one will really read it. The few who do will most likely be fishing for character weaknesses to blame it on, rather than trying to see it from your point of view. The few times someone has asked me about my reasons they tended to latch on to one thing (e.g. I mentioned the priesthood ban to a bishop and he became convinced that it was one little hangup I needed to get over and then everything would be fine).

I have had better luck turning it back on others by saying, "have you read the Gospel Topics essays?" That usually ends it. I do it with the intention of following up with conversations about the essays with anyone who is willing to read them, but apparently nobody reads them. People don't want to be burdened with the responsibility of discovering the issues for themselves, even if it comes from a prophet-approved source. They generally just want you to know that you've disappointed them, that they know you really do still have a testimony, and that you need to repent and come back into the fold. They don't really want to know your reasons, they are responding emotionally to you as a traitor to the tribe. Nowadays, although it has been a long time since anyone asked, I just say, "these days I only attend church to support my wife." If that's not good enough I might say something like "I'm no longer a literal believer," or "I don't believe Thomas Monson is a prophet of God" (guess I need to update that one). Even that seems to create a phonograph-needle-dragged-across-a-record effect in their head.

It really doesn't matter much what you say because they are going to draw conclusions within the narrow spectrum of culturally agreed upon reasons for dissent anyway.

[GoodBoy]

The one thing that is very sad to me is how infrequently that true deep communication has taken place between me and others on why I left. I see the same challenge from others – friends and family are to afraid to ask and we on the outskirts hesitate to tell them, not wanting to cause problems. The result can be a mammoth in the room as many of you here know. And the one thing we all yearn for is to be accepted and understood.

I have had the same experience. I have concluded that people are afraid. They subconsciously know that you aren't stupid and have valid logical reasons for doing what you are doing and because they need their faith for their lives to work out for them, they prefer to not even go there.

My BYU daughters and their very TBM husbands were here all Christmas break. In fact they are at my house now. They know I recently resigned. They believe that faith is absolutely required for eternal happiness. Yet it never came up once. And I'm not sorry it didn't.

Is it worth posting a link to this on Facebook?

I would take into careful consideration the fact that most people are very emotionally attached to their faith. It isn't a rational decision that they've made and they aren't likely to be rational about evaluating it's truthfulness. They really need or want their faith in their lives for their lives to work out for them and for their own peace of mind. So consider that when you are deciding whether to push your new-found knowledge on them. It may not be kind. And you will likely break yourself against their desire to believe before you break that belief with your logical arguments.

I have struggled with this same decision and have talked to many more like us. Most have concluded that it is better to not do the Facebook announcement. Your letter may never get read. I also have a big long letter that hasn't been read by anyone.

You and I will be judged negatively. I honestly don't see a way around it without fighting with people and the subsequent pain and anger. That is the way most people go (anger at the church for the pain it causes them), and it is understandable.

Hold your head up. Be yourself and be happy. Don't treat anyone any differently. You have done nothing wrong. You have nothing to be ashamed of. You aren't stupid or deluded. Like all the millions of other adherents to hundreds of different religious traditions, they are deluded. You still can fit in (mostly) with your church friends and family. Look for a new community in the meantime. Go be the awkward newbie for a while.

[shadow]

One of my best friends from high school and college, and the best man at my wedding, ended up leaving the church a couple years after we graduated. He wrote up a three part essay about his reasons for leaving the church. He emailed the first part out to a large group of people. I was at the beginning of my faith crisis, and I didn't even make it through part 1 of his series.

But we had had personal conversations discussing church topics before he sent part 1 of his essay. The conversations were great. I moved out of state right around that time and we haven't kept in contact as much as I'd like, but one time when we talked on the phone, I asked him why he never sent out the other two parts of his essay. He said that when he first went through his faith crisis, he felt an almost missionary zeal to share what he had learned. To shout it from the rooftops. After sending the first essay, he realized people didn't want to hear it. In an in-person conversation with another one of our friends, the other friend told him that he didn't really care what was written in so-and-so's journal. He was happy in the church.

I still think that's true. You haven't had a lot of conversations about why you've left because people are scared. These experiences with my friend were pre-facebook times. In the past 10-15 years, I think members, at least in the US, would be hard pressed to be ignorant of at least some sort of increase in the availability of troubling historical information. It's not hard to find. You don't need to walk into Jerald and Sandra Tanner's place anymore. People don't know because they don't want to know. But that may be a bit uncharitable. Perhaps it's better said that many people haven't reached a point where something piques their curiosity enough to start considering that all may not be well in zion.

As far as leadership goes, I don't think our attempts to create an understanding leadership will ever result to much. For someone to really understand, they need to acknowledge that a conclusion that the church is not the one true church on the face of the earth is valid. That is antithetical to the role of a church leader. If they get to that point, they'll most likely end of out of leadership and posting on sites like NOM wondering why nobody wants to talk to them about why they left.

I say leave it as it is. Hopefully writing it has been therapeutic. Leave your Facebook posts to pictures of your new favorite drink or extreme political rants. (disclaimer: I've been off of facebook for a few years, so I don't actually know what that online dystopia is like these days.

[Enoch Witty]

I kind of agree that the backfire effect is a serious thing to be scared of, but I will say that what finally gave me the conviction to leave was someone in my ward writing a blog post about leaving the Mormon church and (just a few) reasons why there were doing it. I had been suffering at church for some time, was indoctrinated enough by the anti-anti-Mormon literature rhetoric that I would NEVER consider going to an online community to discuss TSCC, and I didn't even know much of the historical problems. I just hated the culture, especially the conservatism and anti-gay stances.

Then this lady wrote her post and I was telling my wife I just couldn't do it anymore within two days.

So I think the backfire effect is really something to be concerned about... but there might be someone out there who needs to hear what you have to say. It could go either way.

[NewLight]

Thanks for all the input. I guess it all boils down to a personal decision where one should expect nothing from it. Or if anything at all, negativity from others.

I suppose I should know this - I tried for some years to make comments in High Priests to get my peers to be more open in their views and learned rather quickly that type of thing is NOT welcome. But the bottom line as has been stated in this thread is that attending a church is an emotional decision and no amount of critical thinking will change that. Conformity rules in the Mormon church.

Still, it would be very cool to be approached by one struggling ward member or friend and to be one who offers support instead of criticism

[wtfluff]

Still, it would be very cool to be approached by one struggling ward member or friend and to be one who offers support instead of criticism

Given your former position in your ward, and based on the consensus in this thread, maybe you could "come out" on FaceNeck with a short blurb about how you are done, and not go into great detail, but leave the offer open to anyone who would like to know more.

If / when you get any other interest, you could link them to your essay, then poke them to see if they actually read it?


"Coming out" on any sort of social media is something I personally don't think I'd ever do. I was a complete nobody in mormonism, and never really had any "friends" in my latest ward. I basically just disappeared as far as attendance is concerned, and after a couple of ward re-organizations / divisions, I'm even more of a nobody.

[moksha]

Sometimes it helps to reduce a story to a few bullet points:

• Lactose Intolerant Milk Strippings

• Fear of Multi-level Marketing

• Etc...

[JustHangingOn@57]

My ward in Alpine Utah is ultra orthodox TBM. The consensus of option, at least amongst the high priests, is that people who have left the church do so because Stan has a hold of them and have thus been deceived by anti-Mormon propoganda. Or, equally popular, is that belief that they have sinned and are ashamed to go back to activity. I hear this LITERALLY EVERY WEEK in my hp meeting. So, as thoughtful, fair, balanced, and gentle as your essay is I'm afraid, at least in my little area of Mormonville, it would be met with a mixture of fear, condescension, and pity.

[Hagoth]

Apart from Mrs. Hagoth I have shared specific details of my faith crisis with only one TBM, my oldest friend. He responded by calling me dishonest and a "purveyor of sleaze." Just sayin'.

[Stig]

My ward in Alpine Utah is ultra orthodox TBM. The consensus of option, at least amongst the high priests, is that people who have left the church do so because Stan has a hold of them and have thus been deceived by anti-Mormon propoganda. Or, equally popular, is that belief that they have sinned and are ashamed to go back to activity. I hear this LITERALLY EVERY WEEK in my hp meeting. So, as thoughtful, fair, balanced, and gentle as your essay is I'm afraid, at least in my little area of Mormonville, it would be met with a mixture of fear, condescension, and pity.

Whoever this "Stan" guy is, he sure is a nasty fella!

[No Tof]

Just a shout out for you who have written epistle length essays. I just finished reading them and found them helpful in my journey.

Some of us are less able to write well and to see the thoughts we have been struggling with for years crystallized in a few paragraphs helps to put things into order.

Sadly though, I agree that most TBMs won’t read or appreciate the content. You would have to already be on the road to see the value. Anyway thanks for the read.

[RubinHighlander]

We tried to bow out quietly, but when I started hitting the wall with local leadership, harassing our family with attempted appointments to go in and talk, I finally had to sit down and write the email. I spent a week or so on lots of iterations of it. After having other NOM friends help me hone it down with lots of good advice, it ended up being a page and a half of very direct statements of our discontinued belief in any of the church's truth claims and disagreement with it's policies. I offered some explanation as to how we had come to these conclusions, through careful study and prayer, sticking primarily to church based sources. My SP's response to my email was respectful, but he countered with his experience studying the essays and other apologetic on the troublesome issues and he had come to a different conclusion than I had.

Most of us here know how unproductive it is to throw any facts, no matter how plain, at TBMs. TBM emotions filter out any logic or reason that does not agree with their Mormon world view. A Martin Luther like manifesto, hammered to the door of a chapel is just going to get you burned at the stake (pun intended) and will only mean something to NOMs and non-believers.

I'm not against your manifesto, it may very well help someone else who is on the fence. It helped me on my journey out when I was able to talk to close friends and ask them why they left the church. So I would post it up here and somewhere you can send people who really want to know. But as far as it's impact on TBMs, unless their shelf is getting weak, it will only make them scoff and point the finger of judgement that Satan just picked you up and shook you like a dog. So if your FB audience still has a mix of TBMs that you respect and love, probably not the place for it; maybe just a link to it that explains if folks really want to know, then they click and go there. This would be a little less in-the-face of your TBM followers.

A former bishop friend of mine who helped me get out told me that he wishes he had done it differently. His was an emotional exit when he tried to confide in his local leadership and they treated him badly. He wishes he had held his tongue and not been an Ahole to him in response to them treating him like crap.