FP news conference

[Jeffret]

If I call that a train wreck, am I being too kind?

[nibbler]

The most shocking thing was that real questions were asked. Real questions.

The answers weren't that great because they're trying to retrofit 21st century concerns into a mid-19th century mindset. If they made room for new revelation and change the questions wouldn't be as hard to answer.

[Jeffret]

The biggest reason I watched (I really shouldn't have bothered) was to get a sense of their health and vitality.

My assessment is that their physical health is pretty good, given their age. They're old men but their bodies are holding up pretty well. Oaks seemed to me be the healthiest and most energetic. Eyring seemed the least. Maybe it's just the way he speaks, but he seemed to have some trouble forming the words at times, even during the scripted intro. Eyring didn't really participate all that much in the answers.

Their vitality seemed a bit so-so. Good for their age, but they didn't really demonstrate any fire and drive. It appeared to me that they were lagging a bit as the press conference went on, and it was only 45 minutes. Oaks and Nelson made big points about how active Nelson is, going down stairs instead of using the elevator and snow skiing. I have to admit that's pretty good. For a 93 year old man. But I didn't really any indication he had the vitality, the strength of purpose and will to carry through any significant improvements during his tenure. He'll probably have a couple of years where he can keep a relatively full schedule of visiting places before his strength starts to deteriorate.

Mentally, they seemed pretty good. But, again they seemed like old men. Nelson was most interested in the family connections he has known and met of the questioners. They remembered stuff relatively well and were able to form responses.

Intellectually, by which I mean their ability to reason, analyze, and keep track of things, they weren't doing terribly well. They had trouble keeping track of the questions and responding to them. It certainly didn't look like they were trying to use the technique of answering the question they wanted to answer. They just got lost and meandered around for a while. Eventually Peggy had to shout out about her original question and they kind of blabbered about that for a while. Oaks did better. Eyring didn't really participate enough to tell.

[oliver_denom]

This from the Trib's coverage of the conference:

Nelson and Oaks noted many strong Latter-day Saints who are sticking with the faith, but also pointed to marriage as a key to retaining them.

“Young men and young women are stronger when they marry [and are in a relationship] that the Lord ordains,” Oaks said.

“Partnership. Partnership, that’s the secret — and one plus one are more than two,” Nelson added. “[They] can do things together that they cannot do by themselves.”

I know this is nothing new, but is that their best answer? Do more to push people into even younger marriages? Is that how they plan to retain people?

I can't possibly see how that could go wrong.

[blazerb]

If I call that a train wreck, am I being too kind?

I think it will depend greatly on who is observing. TBM's will bear testimony of the strength they exhibited. To others, they will be remembered as easily distracted and confused.

[Jeffret]

The biggest thing I noticed is that they really have nothing to offer. At such a point, a change in leadership and a news conference, you would expect them to try and present some sense of vision, a sense of direction, some idea of what they find important and meaningful. A CEO would be prepared with his vision for the company and how he feels they could grow and succeed.

These FP members had nothing. Empty statements. Other than meaningless platitudes, they offered nothing during their scripted statements. They demonstrated no indication of being prepared for the questions. The ones about LGBT people and women should not have been unexpected, if they allowed for open, unscripted questions, yet they didn't appear to have any preparation. They just rambled on about LGBT people without saying anything. They completely missed Peggy's question about women until her follow-up, "What about women?", when they pandered to women in extremely patriarchal fashion. In the age of #MeToo and The Silence Breakers that comes across as very out-of-touch and irrelevant.

They demonstrated no real awareness of the issues going on in the world, the concerns their members have, or the problems facing the Church. They made no efforts to reach out to people who might see things differently from them. When asked about the youth, or Millennials, they had nothing to offer them, other than praising those who follow their demands. They provided no indication that they are aware of why the youth are leaving churches in droves. Rather they demonstrated those reasons most acutely.

Oaks made an attempt to address accusations of cover-up or hiding information in what sounds like a standard talking point. I found it fell pretty flat. Take the most innocuous thing possible that the Church has done, voluminous enough that most people won't ever read it, and try to satisfy the faithful that they've been open. It'll work for those who adore them, but not for others.

As prophets, seers, and revelators, they should provide some meaningful vision. Some focus by which people's lives can improve. That isn't just empty platitudes.

It's clear they're just intent on staying the course, with perhaps a little more stringent devotion to the conservative biases of old, white men. And maybe more dedication to loyalty and strictness. Those are not winning strategies in this age.

[Emower]

If I call that a train wreck, am I being too kind?

I think it will depend greatly on who is observing. TBM's will bear testimony of the strength they exhibited. To others, they will be remembered as easily distracted and confused.

Story of the whole Mormon experience. Its all about perception.

[Jeffret]

I think it will depend greatly on who is observing. TBM's will bear testimony of the strength they exhibited. To others, they will be remembered as easily distracted and confused.

Totally agree. The faithful will talk about how they felt the spirit, without ever providing any clarification on what they learned or gained. Almost everyone else will totally ignore it. But for those on the fringe, or questioning from one side or another, or in any way not fully committed, this will provide them no help.

Mormons desperately want to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators. They yearn for any prophesying, seeing, or revealing. This press conference provided not even the barest shred of those.

[wtfluff]

If I call that a train wreck, am I being too kind?

Nope. Glad I'm not the only one.

I am a bit surprised that the questions and answers weren't completely scripted. You'd think Holy the Ghost would be helping these old guys out so they don't look like old, out-of-touch, blubbering old guys. Maybe mormon god sent Holy to help find some teenager's keys, and it took a littler longer than normal.

Hopefully it will be business as normal. (Boring, correlated pablum.) I am a bit afraid that they're going to step up the bigotry and hatred. Let's hope I'm wrong.

[azflyer]

I am watching the press conference on youtube now. Oaks has a really big stupid grin on his face. Oaks and Nelson were called on the same day to be apostles. They are obviously close and friends. This reminds me of when I was called to be the President of the Deacon's quorum in my ward growing up and I had my two best friends put in as my counselors.

[Jeffret]

Their most celebrated accomplishments seem to be that they've lived a long time and had lots of progeny.

[Jeffret]

I know this is nothing new, but is that their best answer? Do more to push people into even younger marriages? Is that how they plan to retain people?

Yes, pretty much. And that's pretty much the most substantive of all their responses.

Marriage does have advantages. In some ways more so for men than for women. And it has correlated pretty well with retention, for churches in general and particularly for the Mormon church. It has long been something that top Mormon leaders have stressed. But, it's a losing strategy. In American (and more generally Western) society, people are delaying marriage more than they used. They're seeking to get established in life first, before getting married. That works against Mormon leaders' goals for retention. Mormon leaders like to think that Mormons do their own thing and don't follow larger societal trends, but that is absolutely wrong. Mormons just lag behind societal trends. Indications are that Mormon youth and Millennials are delaying marriage and children, not as much as in the general society, but more than their parents.

This push for marriage is not going to correct any of the issues driving the younger generations out of the church. Nor is it going to provide any help for the older generations. It's also very unlikely to change the declining conversion rates.

[Mormorrisey]

Trainwreck is a kind word. I don't know how Hinckley pulled off his non-answers (a folksy charm, maybe?), but Nelson's non-answers just fell flat. Maybe that's a result of my changing worldview too. In any event, that was a cringe-fest of the highest order. From dropped microphones to ignoring questions, it was painful to watch. But as was mentioned, this was the last press conference Nelson will have, it was worth taking a few minutes to watch it.

[nibbler]

I'd love for more perspectives on this.

At the very beginning, after the LBGT question was asked, Oaks started talking over Nelson. Flat out interrupted him. He did it several times. It was initially jarring, as I assumed that the president of the church would drive things and solicit input from his counselors as needed but Oaks took the reigns and talked over Nelson several times.

At first I thought it was telling but as the conference wore on Eyring added unprompted input. I thought, 'maybe that's how these things go.' but initially it seemed like Oaks was trying to take control.

[LaMachina]

That was even more painful than I anticipated...

I worry it's maybe I've become too stiff-necked to give these guys the benefit of the doubt but that was really bad.

Is it too late to get Utchdorf back?....at least he's charming.

[MoPag]

I'd love for more perspectives on this.

At the very beginning, after the LBGT question was asked, Oaks started talking over Nelson. Flat out interrupted him. He did it several times. It was initially jarring, as I assumed that the president of the church would drive things and solicit input from his counselors as needed but Oaks took the reigns and talked over Nelson several times.

Maybe they will get into a fist fight and end up in the hospital?

[nibbler]

Maybe they will get into a fist fight and end up in the hospital?

And the doctor that saves them will be the next apostle. Quid pro quo.

Nah. No chance of them fighting. Didn't you see the budding bromance during the presser? I kept expecting his stake young women's president to show up to make sure she could fit a BoM between them. Is someone going to have to remind them what's written in PotF?

[Kishkumen]

I'd love for more perspectives on this.

At the very beginning, after the LBGT question was asked, Oaks started talking over Nelson. Flat out interrupted him. He did it several times. It was initially jarring, as I assumed that the president of the church would drive things and solicit input from his counselors as needed but Oaks took the reigns and talked over Nelson several times.

At first I thought it was telling but as the conference wore on Eyring added unprompted input. I thought, 'maybe that's how these things go.' but initially it seemed like Oaks was trying to take control.

I noticed that a lot, too. However Nelson seemed to appreciate it. DHO and RMN kept gripping each others forearms reassuringly.

It was all so bizarre.

Oaks is the one steering the boat for the new few years. RMN is a puppet.

[wtfluff]

Their most celebrated accomplishments seem to be that they've lived a long time and had lots of progeny.

Well... Both Nelson and Oaks are celestial polygamists too, so there's that.

'... At first I thought it was telling but as the conference wore on Eyring added unprompted input. ...

Honestly, I thought Eyring looked like he was in La-La-Land for a bunch of the time. When they initially panned over to the "FP table" after the intro, he was literally staring off into space, with his mouth agape for way longer than I was comfortable with. No-one was close enough to elbow him in the ribs to wake him from his stupor of thought, but I wish someone would have...

[LaMachina]

Honestly, I thought Eyring looked like he was in La-La-Land for a bunch of the time. When they initially panned over to the "FP table" after the intro, he was literally staring off into space, with his mouth agape for way longer than I was comfortable with. No-one was close enough to elbow him in the ribs to wake him from his stupor of thought, but I wish someone would have...

I know, right?! It was so weird I thought the video had froze. Nope...just Eyring's brain for a minute.