Monthly Report from TBM Family Time

[Linked]

I think I have been posting these a lot, sorry. I have no where else that understands.

We had a family get together last night and we had a few minutes where all my siblings were sitting and chatting. All the adults know I don't believe, I've had long discussions with some of them. The chat was all about church stuff and largely cringe worthy. Not only do I not fit in, I find what they say ridiculous and offensive. Today I am feeling depressed and like maybe it is time to move on from interacting with TBMs. Some highlights:

- My un-preachy brother is now preachy. His already great career is getting better, and he mentioned to me how much a blessing from my dad and an inspired comment from his wife in the temple helped him get there. These are not comments I heard him make before talking about my not believing. Maybe he is getting more TBM. Or maybe he is the same TBM and this is just how he feels he can "help" me come back.

- My other brother was recently put in a bishopric and he was talking about how he has a hard time assigning people stuff. He said he needs to get better at not saying things like, "think about it". Basically, he wants to turn off the healthy respect he has for people and start commanding them. He is such a nice guy, and he is trying to stop. Don't do it!!!

- My now preachy brother accepted a call to work in the temple, and due to scheduling issues he is working for a couple hours once a week in the cafeteria. My siblings are now planning a trip to take the kids to do baptisms and go eat in the cafeteria, this makes me feel left out. They also got a kick out of the idea of him putting a tip jar up, "money changers in the temple!! Hahaha! You could put it up in front of a picture of Jesus throwing the tables over! Hahaha!" The irony must have been lost of them.

And I just sat through it.

[Enoch Witty]

Blergh. I'd cut back on the time I spent with people like that too. Maybe just leave the room when that stuff starts. Hang with the kids.

[Kishkumen]

Water off a duck's back, Linked.

It sucks I know. Don't replace your family with other people, but find other people to spend time with that will provide you with social relief. Gym, hobby, sports, something. It will be hard since you have a young family and getting 5 minutes peace is hard enough, but find something and a group of people where you can be a bit more authentic and open, something to look forward to.

I know it's tough being the odd man out. Just keep being you. They really aren't trying to exclude or annoy you, they're playing within the bounds they know and you now have different bounds. One of the hardest things for me was finding common ground outside of church topics. It's still hard. Church topics are an easy go-to and have infected every conversation with TBM's. It's crazy just how bad it is when you look in from the outside. Talk about guns, politics, Superb Owl, electric cars, nuclear fission, anything, just be interesting.

Keep on truckin', you got this.

[Corsair]

This topic will continue being relevant to me as the undercover unbeliever in most family gatherings. I am visiting with all of my siblings this weekend for a birthday party and I anticipate some heavily TBM discussions. We are first meeting to eat after my father gets out of his temple shift. This is a central problem because the church brings a lot of joy to people. I am distinctly happy that my widower father has a solid group of social support in his ward and in the temple.

My happiness is no longer tethered either positively or negatively to the church. I basically treat it like my family all has this expensive hobby like "golf" and I don't bad mouth it when I'm around them. I don't begrudge te sport of golf or the expensive facilities that it maintains. The temple largely falls into this category also. My siblings take their own joy in LDS activities and I am honestly happy to let them do so while not letting on how I feel about it.

[alas]

This topic will continue being relevant to me as the undercover unbeliever in most family gatherings. I am visiting with all of my siblings this weekend for a birthday party and I anticipate some heavily TBM discussions. We are first meeting to eat after my father gets out of his temple shift. This is a central problem because the church brings a lot of joy to people. I am distinctly happy that my widower father has a solid group of social support in his ward and in the temple.

My happiness is no longer tethered either positively or negatively to the church. I basically treat it like my family all has this expensive hobby like "golf" and I don't bad mouth it when I'm around them. I don't begrudge te sport of golf or the expensive facilities that it maintains. The temple largely falls into this category also. My siblings take their own joy in LDS activities and I am honestly happy to let them do so while not letting on how I feel about it.

Yes, try thinking of the heavy involvement in church as an expensive hobby that takes up all their time, money, and emotional energy, and is all they talk about, which you are just not interested in. For example, my oldest daughter is into cosplay. She spends a minor fortune on making three to four really elaborate costumes for a big dragon com, or whatever and then goes across the country to attend. What does she get out of it? Who knows, but it is her whole life, all she talks about. She is getting married in September and the wedding will be Star Wars themed, and as the mother of the bride I get to dress up as Yoda.....or not. There are a few of us who will be sitting out, just like sitting outside the temple. Her own daughter is refusing, so I don't feel too guilty going as Pooh Bah. Then there is my next child who is into SCA. They dress up and play medieval, so all their time and money goes into that. By comparison, my TBM son and his wife are refreshingly normal.

But I love the person, even if I have zero interest in the hobby. So, in that way, I am interested in what they are doing.

The trick s to stop caring about your own past involvement, and stop thinking you should care about your relative's hobbies. As soon as I was all the way past feeling guilty about being an apostate, I could let family members talk without it bugging me or feeling left out of the conversation. As you detach, you will find that you can join the conversation at some points where it intersects your own life, or just listen to it as who they are and care about it only because you care about them. Back to the hobby example, I really have zero interest in dressing up as somebody from Dr. Who. I have never even watched any Dr. Who and have zero interest in doing so. But I can care about her excitement and even discuss where it does intersect my own life, for instance costuming takes sewing, fabric knowledge, and even drawing up your own patterns, all of which I know about. So, back to the church, one sister in law is into repeat missions to help with hand cart trecks. Three years now. But they had to research one of my ancestors because of who he was in the handcart companies, so we talked about that. So, there are still ways your life experience can add to discussions about church, for example, to encourage the bishopric guy to still respect their right to pray about callings he is offering. Sure, more of them will turn down a calling instead of taking it and then passive aggressive screwing up ward functioning because they resent being pressured into something they don't want. Your perspective can still be worthwhile, you just have to detach enough to be able to present it in ways that don't offend TBMs.

[Linked]

Blergh. I'd cut back on the time I spent with people like that too. Maybe just leave the room when that stuff starts. Hang with the kids.

Funny aside, earlier in the evening my 17 year old nephew told me to come check something out and we spent 15 minutes in his room listening to his latest music (Five Finger Death Punch) and playing with his new Nintendo Switch. That was way better than the time spent with my siblings. But if he "goes astray" will they blame me? Should they?

Thanks for the advice and support. I know I need to get over it, but it's too personal for me still. It hurts to be passive aggressively preached to, and to hear them talk about manipulating people, and to not see the nose in front of their faces. But I don't want to be the angry exmo. But I am also the kind of guy who likes to be right and convince everyone else. I used to have enough credibility built up with my family that they listened and often believed what I said, but that is all gone now. Now they politely listen, then ignore what I said if it is remotely not faith promoting. It's like I'm an art major in a calculus class talking about art, they don't care about what I have to say and neither of us are going to understand each other.

I'll try to be more proactive next time with interesting topics. Space X is going to try to launch its Falcon Heavy rocket on February 6th, that's discussion worthy. Right?

[MerrieMiss]

I know your experience is different from mine because I haven't told people I don't believe so no one is trying to make a point to me. I survive these things by playing with the kids, changing the conversation, and pretending to sleep. (Ah, pretending to sleep - that was a very, very bad day. The most difficult part was maintaining a straight face, particularly when they started talking about what a rough night I had with the kids - not nearly as rough as having to listen to that drivel.)

Sometimes I feel like it's too simple, but I feel like the real answer is Time. It takes time. In some ways, it's the easiest answer, but in other ways it's the hardest because you just have to live through it until you get there. Hang in there.

[Enoch Witty]

This topic will continue being relevant to me as the undercover unbeliever in most family gatherings. I am visiting with all of my siblings this weekend for a birthday party and I anticipate some heavily TBM discussions. We are first meeting to eat after my father gets out of his temple shift. This is a central problem because the church brings a lot of joy to people. I am distinctly happy that my widower father has a solid group of social support in his ward and in the temple.

My happiness is no longer tethered either positively or negatively to the church. I basically treat it like my family all has this expensive hobby like "golf" and I don't bad mouth it when I'm around them. I don't begrudge te sport of golf or the expensive facilities that it maintains. The temple largely falls into this category also. My siblings take their own joy in LDS activities and I am honestly happy to let them do so while not letting on how I feel about it.

my oldest daughter is into cosplay.

Alas, you're one of my favorite posters here, and your daughter sounds cool af too. I wish I could be both your friends!

[Enoch Witty]

Blergh. I'd cut back on the time I spent with people like that too. Maybe just leave the room when that stuff starts. Hang with the kids.

Funny aside, earlier in the evening my 17 year old nephew told me to come check something out and we spent 15 minutes in his room listening to his latest music (Five Finger Death Punch) and playing with his new Nintendo Switch. That was way better than the time spent with my siblings. But if he "goes astray" will they blame me? Should they?

Dude, they definitely will blame you, but they shouldn't. TSCC's product is flawed, boring, and damaging. Kids are going to be getting out all the time.

[alas]

This topic will continue being relevant to me as the undercover unbeliever in most family gatherings. I am visiting with all of my siblings this weekend for a birthday party and I anticipate some heavily TBM discussions. We are first meeting to eat after my father gets out of his temple shift. This is a central problem because the church brings a lot of joy to people. I am distinctly happy that my widower father has a solid group of social support in his ward and in the temple.

My happiness is no longer tethered either positively or negatively to the church. I basically treat it like my family all has this expensive hobby like "golf" and I don't bad mouth it when I'm around them. I don't begrudge te sport of golf or the expensive facilities that it maintains. The temple largely falls into this category also. My siblings take their own joy in LDS activities and I am honestly happy to let them do so while not letting on how I feel about it.

my oldest daughter is into cosplay.

Alas, you're one of my favorite posters here, and your daughter sounds cool af too. I wish I could be both your friends!

My daughter is supper cool, and very talented. For years she made garb for SCA (society of creative Anacronisms) and even had some purchased as costuming for theater and movies. Now she has switched to cosplay and her first costume made for her daughter won first place and pictures of it are being used as their publicity.

[Dravin]

- My un-preachy brother is now preachy. His already great career is getting better, and he mentioned to me how much a blessing from my dad and an inspired comment from his wife in the temple helped him get there. These are not comments I heard him make before talking about my not believing. Maybe he is getting more TBM. Or maybe he is the same TBM and this is just how he feels he can "help" me come back.

The idea that, "Hey, I had some good things happen in my life. You should totally believe again now." is kinda laughable.

[Deepthinker]

Blergh. I'd cut back on the time I spent with people like that too. Maybe just leave the room when that stuff starts. Hang with the kids.

Funny aside, earlier in the evening my 17 year old nephew told me to come check something out and we spent 15 minutes in his room listening to his latest music (Five Finger Death Punch) and playing with his new Nintendo Switch. That was way better than the time spent with my siblings. But if he "goes astray" will they blame me? Should they?

Thanks for the advice and support. I know I need to get over it, but it's too personal for me still. It hurts to be passive aggressively preached to, and to hear them talk about manipulating people, and to not see the nose in front of their faces. But I don't want to be the angry exmo. But I am also the kind of guy who likes to be right and convince everyone else. I used to have enough credibility built up with my family that they listened and often believed what I said, but that is all gone now. Now they politely listen, then ignore what I said if it is remotely not faith promoting. It's like I'm an art major in a calculus class talking about art, they don't care about what I have to say and neither of us are going to understand each other.

I'll try to be more proactive next time with interesting topics. Space X is going to try to launch its Falcon Heavy rocket on February 6th, that's discussion worthy. Right?

I'm so sorry for the hurt it is causing you. I'm still in the closet with the majority of my family, so I can only imagine what you're going through.

Yeah, I would second spending more time with nieces and nephews. I like the idea of coming prepared with other topics, but they could still steer the discussion towards church.