Is Mormon sentiment changing?

[Red Ryder]

It feels like Mormon sentiment is changing rather quickly. Maybe it's just me noticing all of the recent events like Monson's obituary, Rob "black eye" Porter, Jon "bum sex" Stanard, the masturbation interview petition, the BYU rape honor code debacle, the 2 party consent to record bill, etc, etc, etc. Perhaps I'm just biased from over consuming the disaffected mormon product via reddit exmo, RFM, NOM, and numerous other places.

In the past, Mormonism was known for goodness and clean living, large families, and weird self reliance practices like food storage, bunkers, and 72 hour kits. Everyone who knew a mormon had nothing but good to say about them. Most people who knew about the church, politely declined not wanting to become Mormon, but nonetheless Mormons were respected.

It's clearly not the 1960's brand of wholesomeness anymore. People tend to think Mormons are dishonest, corrupt business leaders, who only take care of each other and wear funny underwear. Misinformation continues to exist regarding the mainstream church still practicing polygamy. A quick google search turns up numerous stories of Bishops inappropriate behaviors and even a seminary teacher arrested for sex with a minor on the roof. Stories of excommunications, secret recordings, and endless posts documenting the real life pain and agony of people struggling to survive in the wake of leaving the church. New geriatric leadership. Divorce over here, suicides over there, shunning everywhere.

It's embarrassing to admit we were once (are still) part of this story called Mormonism. Mormonism has lost it's luster. It's not even fun to be disaffected anymore.

[Emower]

I think it is probably a combo. Sentiment may be changing, but for sure the circles you run in have an effect on that. 20 years ago you wouldn't have been googling "Mormons" and reading whatever came up. And even if the sentiment is changing, the party line is that the world is becoming less god-fearing, more wicked, and that means that sentiment against Mormons will change. Cue the persecution complex. I think reporting habits are changing as well. Exposing people for who they really are makes for good headlines these days. Not that I am against exposing bad behavior, but it seems to really be capturing the nations attention now.

[a1986]

I think the reputation is changing, but slowly and I think you're right, it might be more that the media you consume / search out is not exactly LDS friendly?

I do feel that with the new leadership, that was a definite step in the wrong direction given the times. Old, crusty (and some not so crusty I suppose) white dudes in nearly all of the leadership roles does not do much for the church's public image.

I still feel there are good people in the church and still feel like the church has some good points, for sure. The way things are heading (feminist / women's issues more in the media, scenarios similar to what the Weed family went through, etc.) the media is going to continue to paint a not so pretty picture of the LDS church in the years to come.

[notforprophet]

My initial reaction (and I've been wondering this myself) is that this impression is mostly due to our new circles. I know that as a member I was entirely oblivious to any "bad news" about the church, and I've only been out for a year. I doubt that things have changed that much in that short time.

However, BuzzFeed (a site I'm not a fan of, but that receives a lot of traffic) is apparently collecting information on Sam Young's campaign against one-on-one, closed-door interviews with children and youth. Also the recently failed 2-party consent bill certainly brings some negative light onto the church. Rob Porter is also a really high profile case.

It does make me hopeful that these things are more public than I'm assuming. Mostly I just hope that Mormons are seeing this stuff.

[RubinHighlander]

It's embarrassing to admit we were once (are still) part of this story called Mormonism. Mormonism has lost it's luster. It's not even fun to be disaffected anymore.

I support this message!

It's enough to find out you were lied to and paid a big chunk of your income to something that's not what it claims to be. Then you have to deal with all this modern day legitimate scrutiny that makes it 10 fold more embarrassing to admit you were ever a part of it or that you still have extended family and friends that still believe it! Just like the other day at lunch when a TBM coworker friend of mine was trying to use that new Mayan city jungle discovery to buoy up his believe in the BOM. It's incredibly frustrating to me to feel I was duped by that BS then see other intelligent human I love continue to be duped by it!

If the COB collapsed tomorrow, I'd rejoice with a joyous noise, then help my friends and family make the transition, pick up the pieces and quickly find a happier more fulfilling life!

[Corsair]

I am eternally glad that I have not had to publicly state that I come from an LDS background. It was last noted six years ago at one office I worked in that had several other Mormons there. I walk around the current office carrying coffee partially just to deflect any suspicion that I still attend with a ward.

[LaMachina]

No I don't think so.

Mormonism has always been viewed as sort of a mixed bag IMO. A lot of people for our entire history have viewed us as nice but weird. Hardworking but naive. Reserved but sexual deviants. Anyone who's ever done business with a mormon will tell you good stories and horror stories. I don't think it's necessarily gotten worse or changed much. It's always been a little embarrassing to be Mormon. And also a source of some pride.

That said it does seem that Mormon PR has pulled some real boner moves lately. But they're in good company. Have you seen the news lately??

I do remember when Romney was running for Pres our bishop read something from the stand. Mind you, we're a ward in a small Canadian town. His letter (I can't remember if it was from a SP or Area authority?) said that should Romney become POTUS it would be one of the most difficult periods in history for members of the church. I remember finding that strange but it seems the mormon church prefers just enough media coverage but not too much. Don't want too many closets full of skeletons opened I guess.

So in that sense, in our information age, it's fair to say that more people are probably more generally aware of those skeletons.

[MoPag]

Mormonism has always been viewed as sort of a mixed bag IMO. A lot of people for our entire history have viewed us as nice but weird. Hardworking but naive. Reserved but sexual deviants. Anyone who's ever done business with a mormon will tell you good stories and horror stories. I don't think it's necessarily gotten worse or changed much. It's always been a little embarrassing to be Mormon. And also a source of some pride.

Well Bing supports the mixed bag idea:

bingmormon.png (103.14 KiB) Viewed 7453 times

[MoPag]

Here is Yahoo

yahoomormon.png (86.31 KiB) Viewed 7452 times

[MoPag]

I had to tweak the question for google

[MoPag]

And since I was a 90s kid...here is AOL:

aolmormon.png (40.54 KiB) Viewed 7446 times

Well, at least we're hot!!!

[2bizE]

I think we see Mormonism different now and what you see is a sign of disaffection bias. All TBMs see in this cluster of bad media is Follow the Prophet and the church is true. Same thoughts TBMs have had for a century of more. However, what they do notice is that many fewer people are attending church.

[Misbehaved Woman]

It's external perception might be changing

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/politics/ ... index.html

[Jeffret]

It feels like Mormon sentiment is changing rather quickly. Maybe it's just me noticing all of the recent events like Monson's obituary, Rob "black eye" Porter, Jon "bum sex" Stanard, the masturbation interview petition, the BYU rape honor code debacle, the 2 party consent to record bill, etc, etc, etc. Perhaps I'm just biased from over consuming the disaffected mormon product via reddit exmo, RFM, NOM, and numerous other places.

It's some of both. I don't know how much those specific events have impacted things, but there are changes going on. I first started participating in the DAMU back in the 90's, before Ann coined the term. Things have changed over that time. But then so have I, and my own perception regarding the Church and my criticism of it. It relates back to the other thread going on now, "Truth? Reality". It's really hard to tell what the reality is and it differs from person to person.

Externally, I think we can break people's awareness of the Church down to some specific eras or points. Prior to Hinckley, most people had little awareness of Mormonism. They knew it as an unusual religion dominating Utah, but that Mormons were nice people, and BYU had a good, exciting football team. As a long-time PR guy, Hinckley worked to get more publicity for the Church and it worked fairly well. He came across as a personable, kindly older gentleman. He worked to mainstream and normalize Mormonism. On the national stage he downplayed Mormon peculiarities. Mormons saw the 2002 Winter Olympics as their chance to shine on the public stage. They mostly controlled the narrative around the Olympics regarding themselves. They put on a good show and their religion was mostly seen as quirky but pleasant and nice. This was the start of the "Mormon Moment" and it started quite well. Into this period, outside of the Salt Lake Tribune, few media outlets ever bothered to do any real analysis or articles on the religion. In 2008 that started to change, as the Church first started to be noticed on the national stage. Prior to that, those opposed to the Church's anti-gay efforts had tried to get the word out. With the nascent wide-spread adoption of the internet in 2008, that changed dramatically. With the passage of Prop 8, the Church's involvement was suddenly big news in California, the West, and the nation. Suddenly there was a story to tell, with investigative reporting, analysis, and something other than the Church's narrative. The "Mormon Moment" continued into 2012 with Romney's campaign. Mainstream outlets mostly declared direct analysis or commentary on his religion off limits. The fragmented, fringe media outlets of today barely existed at that point. With Romney's loss, the "Mormon Moment" was over. Hinckley was no longer around to lead a positive PR campaign. Media outlets and investigative reporters now considered Mormons and Mormonism fair game. Under Monson's lethargic reign, little was done to counter that.

I don't know how much sentiment has changed among Chapel Mormons. There have been some changes going on, but I don't know how much they recognize the changes. I'm guessing that most of them aren't really aware of changes.

Around the fringes of Mormons, not just the disaffected but those who are fringey for any number of reasons, there have been quite a bit of changes. Sentiment has changed quite a bit. Dehlin used to have some qualms about his work chronicling the fringes of Mormonism, dissecting it, or criticizing it. His hesitancy disappeared when they finally excommunicated him. Since then he has continued creating a wide array of of interviews. Participants or those connected to his efforts include those that are strongly anti-Mormon, some who are Middle Way, and some who are still believers. Likewise Bill Reel's Mormon Discussions has created a substantial place for fringey discussions and participants. And a number of others that have some decent following. Mike Norton's brash, bold, direct attacks have given them troubles and concerns. Sam Young's passionate activism over interviewing youth about sexuality has caught some attention. Within the DAMU, I think his efforts have already started to change the discussion and perception. In the past, he would have been quickly kicked out. Up until the passage of Prop 8, one of the fastest ways to get kicked out was to publicly disagree with the Church on marriage equality and LGBT issues. In the criticism afterward, the Church went pretty quiet until the November Exclusion Policy, which made waves in, out, and on the fringes of the Church. Now even active Mormons publicly support gay rights. And in some cases, even feminism. Ordain Women didn't outright change much, but it got attention and made more people think. And question. I'm quite surprised at how wide the fringe has grown. And how diverse.

With Monson's presidency the Church kind of stagnated, drifting rudderless. TBMs don't really recognize that, but it's clear they yearn for vision, direction, and prophesy. The FP press conference showed that's not likely to really change under Nelson. Nor will it be much different under Oaks once he gets there. Fringe Mormons saw old men doing their best, but nothing engaging. External observers certainly didn't have positive impressions.

[alas]

I think the public image is getting more negative, and more people are leaving and there is some connection between the two things.

But I think we are all too close to it to see any change in public image if there has been any. We can see negative press, but we can't really measure the amount that the negative press changes opinions. It is like with the Catholic sex scandal. Have you told your Catholic friends how that changed how you see their church? Didn't think so. We don't let things like that change our interpersonal relationships, so we don't get feedback on how they see our church. And Americans are very respectful of religions. We may think stuff, but we don't often voice disrespect for other religions. So, it makes it very hard to gauge public opinion about different religions.

So, taking a step away from ourselves here, I know internationally, the "Mormon Moment" was not good for the church. I write to a friend who is an Assie, lives down under. At first, about 04 all she knew was Mormons were a cult and the boys on bicycles were Mormon and that we used to practice polygamy, or maybe that was the Amish. She thought we must be quite a bit like the Amish. What she knew was very vague. Nothing like Mormons think others think about them, no "family values" or "nice people." In recent years she has picked up stories about polygamy with the Warren Jeffs stuff, although it was clear that the bigger branch of the church did not claim them, but still there IS a connection and we all know it. There was the negative fall out from the opposition to gay marriage, even though Australia was way behind the US on that issue they still made it sound like Mormons and Catholics are bigots. When Romney was running, there was stuff about temple vows to obey leaders of the church and how the Mormon church would have total control of the US, this is a cult after all. And when Kate Kelly was excommunicated, there was bad press about how women are treated. John D getting exed didn't seem to hit international news. Of course she asks me about stuff, so I have a really good idea of what is hitting international news and the tone it carries.

She LOVES Utah from all the movies made in Utah (big fan of Touched by an Angel) She know more about where movies are filmed than I do and I live here. In fact, I think that was why we frist got talking, was she thinks Utah has such pretty scenery from the desert in the westerns to all the stuff filmed in our mountains to down town SLC. but she did not know Mormonism was connected to this beautiful state.

So, with the negative stuff hitting international news, I think it has to be having some kind of effect in the US too. But again, it is like the Catholic sex abuse scandal. It doesn't change our opinion of the Catholics we know and our daily interactions stay the same. But would you let a Catholic priest babysit your kid? Would you convert? It probably did change your opinion even though you tried not to let it.

The effect is really hard to pin down, but I think people are more aware that the church is very conservative and for some that is not a bad thing but for others it is.

[Thoughtful]

I've shared with a few colleagues where I'm at and they all see the church as two things: oppressive to women and basically crazy in regard to forbidding alcohol. They express being proud of me for considering ways to get out. They have expressed they knew Mormons who tried to covert them and how "icky" church history felt, or how pressurey and sleazy door knockers are. We definitely see ourselves as special and a light everyone else is jealous of. They see us like we saw JW when I grew up, annoying, obnoxious, brainwashed.

If I ever crack a joke about the church, it's always very funny to them. That someone "inside" can see and joke about it is surprising to them.