In which my attendance at SM is an answer to prayer

[Fifi de la Vergne]

I went to sacrament meeting yesterday (which I almost never do) with my eldest, recently returned missionary, son. He’s awesome: kind, thoughtful, loving, really anxious to help people out and make them feel important and loved. I’d do almost anything for him, but this didn't really feel like a sacrifice – just spending the time with him and knowing it was important to him made it a pleasure.

When we walked in just before the meeting started, the RSP (who was sitting on the stand because yesterday was RS birthday) smiled at me and her whole face lit up. I’ve met her twice, she’s new in the ward and seems absolutely lovely. I smiled back.

When she got up to give her talk she opened by saying that she had actually prepared three different talks and that she had been waiting on the Lord to know if someone was going to be there before she knew which one she was going to give. My heart sank. I knew immediately that she was referring to me, with a good idea of what was to follow. She went on to tell about a time a few years ago when she had come to dread church, stopped believing, and hated herself for being a hypocrite. Then she described an experience where she felt forgiven, validated, and absolutely encircled in god’s love and the assurance of her own worth. Her description and the real emotion as she spoke was pretty powerful. I looked at my lap the whole time and felt myself fighting the emotions being stirred up.

I’m trying to make sense of the whole experience. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be the object of a virtual stranger’s fervent prayers. Like I said, I was moved -- but my disbelief isn’t a result of not praying and reading scripture, but of a whole array of problems that I can no longer overlook. I don’t think she’ll approach me personally (I really hope not) so that’s not the issue. I guess there’s a part of me that is wondering: could god actually be trying to touch my heart? I’ve believed that before. It’s really hard after my faith transition to imagine a deity who is personally interested and involved, but I miss believing that. I miss the feeling of being known and loved and of being a child of god. And in the interest of complete disclosure: I came from a royally messed-up family and only learned how to be a parent by what I learned of god as a father. So there's definitely a question in my mind of where that came from -- if not for the atonement, for faith -- how to account for such a change?

I’m not sure what the point of this post is. Just trying to process, I guess. I often think I’d like to find a way forward that includes faith. I just haven’t figured out how to separate faith from superstition, or how faith fits into the worldview that I’m evolving. Thoughts?

[Mormorrisey]

I have these moments too, you're not alone.

I think I would love to turn back the clock, have the same fervent belief I had when I was younger, but it's just not possible. I can't speak for you obviously, but when I have these little moments of spiritual insight, I just enjoy them without analyzing them deeply. I love the idea that God loves me unconditionally, like I try to do to my own kids, but then I remember I'm more of a universalist/Deist, and don't really believe in a God of lost keys. And you know what? That's okay. It doesn't mean that I don't want to have that kind of relationship with deity, it just means my likelihood of having it is pretty slim. And that's okay too. The less I look for deep meanings, the more I seem to find, if that makes any sense.

I would be uncomfortable with the situation you describe too, I'm pretty private, but that also can be explained by someone just trying to be kind, even if the effort looks a little off. Seems like you had an interesting Sunday!

[oliver_denom]

I’m trying to make sense of the whole experience. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be the object of a virtual stranger’s fervent prayers. Like I said, I was moved -- but my disbelief isn’t a result of not praying and reading scripture, but of a whole array of problems that I can no longer overlook. I don’t think she’ll approach me personally (I really hope not) so that’s not the issue. I guess there’s a part of me that is wondering: could god actually be trying to touch my heart? I’ve believed that before. It’s really hard after my faith transition to imagine a deity who is personally interested and involved, but I miss believing that. I miss the feeling of being known and loved and of being a child of god. And in the interest of complete disclosure: I came from a royally messed-up family and only learned how to be a parent by what I learned of god as a father. So there's definitely a question in my mind of where that came from -- if not for the atonement, for faith -- how to account for such a change?

I’m not sure what the point of this post is. Just trying to process, I guess. I often think I’d like to find a way forward that includes faith. I just haven’t figured out how to separate faith from superstition, or how faith fits into the worldview that I’m evolving. Thoughts?

Here's my two cents.

The feeling or emotion of spirituality is a core piece of being human. We're wired to feel these things, and when they aren't being high jacked by the church, can open the door to some very spiritual and personally significant experiences. Knowing that you're not alone and that someone else is thinking about you can be a good feeling, and when that's coupled with imagery and certain key words that elicits your own memories and emotions, then it can be quite powerful. It can also feel bad to get singled out in the tribe that you're no longer associating with. The admixture of both these things is a bit of confusion and ambivalence.

Human beings are complex and so are their feelings. We can feel multiple emotions simultaneously. We can hold contradictory opinions. We may have wants or desires that aren't even conscious. This is HUGELY important, because as missionaries we were taught that human beings are binary. They are either a 1 or a 0, either lead by the spirit or lead by the devil. We were told that having the experience of spirituality can only mean one thing, the presence of God, and if he is present, then he is signaling that this is the one and only true church. That's quite a leap to make! We were taught that if any of the church's fruits were good, then the entire tree must be good, because good fruit can't come from a spoiled tree. Maybe that's true of trees, but it isn't true of the church, and it's definitely not true of people.

People are not that simple. They are not only good or only bad. The church does not have a monopoly on "the spirit" or spirituality, and it certainly isn't the source. You can feel the spirit any place and in any circumstance where you feel love or beauty. Just ask any devout member of any other religion, and they will also tell you that god is in their life just as powerfully as any member of the church. As an agnostic, I continue to feel the feelings of the spirit in all sorts of situations and gatherings. I don't necessarily attribute them to a god, but I absolutely don't attribute them to anything Mormonism proper has caused. The people within the church may be able to produce and provide spiritual experiences, but the source of those experiences has nothing to do with what Mormonism is or professes to be. That's one of the biggest lies I mistakenly spread as a young missionary, that the feelings of the spirit are evidence that God wants us to be Mormon and obey its leaders. It's simply not true. Those feelings are a core part of being human, the church has just learned how to use that to their advantage.

[No Tof]

I’m trying to make sense of the whole experience. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be the object of a virtual stranger’s fervent prayers. Like I said, I was moved -- but my disbelief isn’t a result of not praying and reading scripture, but of a whole array of problems that I can no longer overlook. I don’t think she’ll approach me personally (I really hope not) so that’s not the issue. I guess there’s a part of me that is wondering: could god actually be trying to touch my heart? I’ve believed that before. It’s really hard after my faith transition to imagine a deity who is personally interested and involved, but I miss believing that. I miss the feeling of being known and loved and of being a child of god. And in the interest of complete disclosure: I came from a royally messed-up family and only learned how to be a parent by what I learned of god as a father. So there's definitely a question in my mind of where that came from -- if not for the atonement, for faith -- how to account for such a change?

I’m not sure what the point of this post is. Just trying to process, I guess. I often think I’d like to find a way forward that includes faith. I just haven’t figured out how to separate faith from superstition, or how faith fits into the worldview that I’m evolving. Thoughts?

Enjoyed your post Fifi.

When in Mexico in January we were sitting in SM and the visiting SP spoke. About half way through his talk he looked at me and spoke directly to me and my wife about how he remembered us when we lived there. It was nice to be recognized and made to feel welcome. There was no way he could have known my distance from the church and I am sure DW saw it as a miraculous event. To me, though it is just a nice thing that happened. When I read your post about how the RS lady decided to focus the theme of her talk when she saw you in hopes of "making a difference " in your life, it made me think of a fortune teller who watches for subtle cues from the mark/client to tailor the fortune more closely to what the person is looking for. Just my thoughts.

Who knows? maybe its all true and we will all find out in the next life how wrong we were. (I think that is the kind of fear tactic used to keep us in line.)

[crossmyheart]

I couldn't have said it better than Oliver

People are not that simple. They are not only good or only bad. The church does not have a monopoly on "the spirit" or spirituality, and it certainly isn't the source. You can feel the spirit any place and in any circumstance where you feel love or beauty. Just ask any devout member of any other religion, and they will also tell you that god is in their life just as powerfully as any member of the church. As an agnostic, I continue to feel the feelings of the spirit in all sorts of situations and gatherings. I don't necessarily attribute them to a god, but I absolutely don't attribute them to anything Mormonism proper has caused.

I am agnostic but it doesn't stop me from feeling spiritual or emotional when I hear or read something of any denomination or belief system that moves me.

And I have to agree with No Tof

it made me think of a fortune teller who watches for subtle cues from the mark/client to tailor the fortune more closely to what the person is looking for.

My first instinct is that it felt more like someone picking out a horoscope for you. Horoscopes are fun to read when they actually apply to our lives. But in reality they are just for entertainment.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

I really appreciate the thoughtful, measured responses here. You all are the best.

The nostalgia I was feeling died abruptly shortly after l posted here -- I clicked over to r/exmormon and read the leaked transcript of the MTC president admitting to molesting multiple young female missionaries. I was shocked to realize that this was the time period when I was in the MTC as a brand new convert. It's absolutely sick-making. I think on the whole it's easier to deal with the fact that people are driven by complicated impulses and desires to do really terrible things sometimes, than to tie myself in knots trying to understand why an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving good would allow this. (And sorry for that really long sentence).