Anyone else overwhelmed by this MTC confession?

[Red Ryder]

Looking back I can see that my disaffection and faith crisis was a slow burn. As I learned more about all of the issues I came to an early conclusion that the church just wasn't what it claimed to be based on doctrinal changes, crazy culture, and whitewashed history. I somewhat rationalized in my head that truth was elusive and that all churches were man made but designed for the good of the people. You've heard it before in some form or fashion; "Church makes bad people good, and good people better." The world would be a better place if all people were religious. Now I think the opposite but that's not the point of my post.

Slowly over the last 10 years many issues would crop up that show just how deeply flawed the church is and ultimately how INSTITUTIONALLY DISHONEST it has become. I guess that shouldn't surprise anyone considering the character of the founder and subsequent early leaders.

I guess what bothers me the most is that I held out hope that the church would provide some benefit and at a minimum not be harmful. Today I realized that this is just not even remotely true.

The church will eat it's own and do EVERYTHING possible to keep it's image sparkling clean at the expense of anyone who dares to speak out and agitate for necessary change and over due protections to keep children safe. It's just sickening to see them do the opposite of what is clearly right.

I think I'm overwhelmed by this latest scandal because rather than doing the RIGHT thing, the church (again) promotes carefully worded denials and ultimately blames the victims. It just hurts that much more to see the evil side of the church continue to show it's true colors.

It's emotionally exhausting to be caught in the middle between TBM family and an angry exmo crowd. I've got to step away from this for awhile to clear my head and maintain my sanity. It's overwhelming.

[Dravin]

I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmed but I do have to fight the urge to mention it to my wife. I mostly overcome that urge by considering how the conversation is likely to go.

[wtfluff]

I get the overwhelming feeling once in a while, not just because of this confession, but stuff like this doesn't really help.

My overwhelming thoughts are along these lines: How did I spend more than half a life-time dedicating too much time and money to a fraud? How did I base EVERY semi-major life decision on a fraud? Now that I've lived my entire life based on a fraud, how the hell do I fix it? What now???

[oliblish]

I have listened to the recording twice and have been reading every article I can find about this. It is personal to me because he was president of the MTC when I was there. He even ordained me to be an elder. Maybe this is why it didn’t seem to stick long term.

He ordained me after all this stuff happened. It makes me wonder if he had a sister missionary in his “preparation room” before the ordination. I hope he washed his hands.

I am just really disgusted by the whole thing. I am not out to anyone but my wife and kids but I have been tempted to share the Tribune article on FB - Probably not a good idea.

[Mormorrisey]

Believe it or not, Sis. M is actually pretty disturbed by this story. I mentioned it casually last night because she went on a mission not long after this clown was the MTC president. So, unbeknownst to me, she did a little digging today. And wasn't too impressed with what she found. For some reason, this one really bothers her, and she saw right through President Newsroom's statement, and saw how they defamed the victim, and spun it completely in the church's favour. One of the few times that we agreed about something when it came to the church, that it's wrong to protect "the good name of the church" over helping a victim. I'm going to take it VERY slow, but I'm hoping for more dialogue like this in the coming days.

So, because we've both been calm and rational talking about this as a real problem in the church, I've avoided any anger, and she's suspended judgment on my opinions, so this episode has been rather positive for us as a mixed-faith couple. Who would have thought something as horrible as this story is, could have any positive outcome? I hope this becomes the norm, and others can find this a catalyst for change, including the church's policies about interviews, ecclesiastical abuse and the whole shebang in the future. If the church can't do that, and see that things CLEARLY need to change, then there really is no hope for it as an institution. Even Sis. M is coming around to the need for at least two deep interviews, and why that might be a good idea - I'm not hoping that she will echo my calls to end them completely, but baby steps, right?

But bang on, RR. I'm as tired of reading the reddit exmo witchhunt as I am reading apologist TBM crap. There are no winners in this story, just tragedy all around, as most of these cases tend to be.

[Anon70]

I was pleased that my tbm spouse and extended family were firmly on the woman’s side in this case. We’ve discussed it at length. Such a tragedy and abuse of power.

[TestimonyLost]

I'm sorry it's been tough for you. I'm taking it in stride more than I'd normally expect. It just feels so darn par for the course, ya know? Covering up sexual improprieties is baked into Mormon culture at a deep level. I audibly snorted when I read the press release from the Newsroom talking about the church's "long-standing policy of no tolerance for abuse." If it weren't so soul-crushing, it'd be hilarious.

I haven't brought it up with my wife and doubt I will. It never leads anywhere other than her shutting down the conversation in frustration with me. So I post here and lurk on the exmo subreddit and wish, as I have for a few years now, that I could just run away from the church and never look back.

[slk]

Last night I told my wife how disgusted I was with J. Bishop. I briefed her as to what happened. So she asks, "what websites are you on, you're always looking at anti-mormon websites." I told her, Fox, Salt Trib just to name a few. I was massaging her back during this conversation which she loves and she actually came to me for the nightly ritual. Then I decided to start playing the recording from mormonleaks. I figured she would listen to some since she loves a good massage. I hadn't even listened to it but did read about 20 pages of the transcript. I guess I was prompted by the spirit as to where exactly in the audio to start. Well, the DW got to listen to the boobies portion of it. She stuck around for about 10 minutes then got up and left. I followed her to see what her thoughts were but all she said was that she didn't want to listen to the recording.

I do know that she hasn't been to church for about 7 weeks. And she was in a teaching position teaching every other week. I haven't said a word about why she hasn't been going and don't want to push the issue. Last night was honestly the most aggressive I had been with her about TSCC. I do think I'm making some progress though.

[Red Ryder]

What a surprise this has turned into. I get home last night and walk in the door to hear the confession tapes playing in the background. Apparently Sister Ryder got a few texts during the day from friends about the whole thing so she was half way through the audio and had spent half a day reading all of the articles and transcripts. We listened to the rest of it together, pausing to make comments and ask questions.

She also read the PR statement and saw through the victim blaming. She sides with the victim.
She's extremely disturbed by the fact that there are most likely more victims.

This definitely loads up her shelf.

[Mormorrisey]

What a surprise this has turned into. I get home last night and walk in the door to hear the confession tapes playing in the background. Apparently Sister Ryder got a few texts during the day from friends about the whole thing so she was half way through the audio and had spent half a day reading all of the articles and transcripts. We listened to the rest of it together, pausing to make comments and ask questions.

She also read the PR statement and saw through the victim blaming. She sides with the victim.
She's extremely disturbed by the fact that there are most likely more victims.

This definitely loads up her shelf.

I'm so glad you had a similar day to mine, #tendermercies.

Two things from this - I don't know what I'd do without this board and its calls for moderation when speaking to TBM spouses and family during my faith transition. I don't think RR's day and mine would have went this way without such advice.

And secondly, I've come to understand that the church is its own worst enemy. As such, I don't have to constantly point the troubles out to Sis M. There will come a day she'll just see it for herself, titanium shelf or no. Don't know if this is the day, but by golly I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts.

[MoPag]

Yes. This has been rough for me too. RR I'm totally with you on all your responses to this. Thanks for starting this thread. What is getting me is processing how TBMs are responding to this.

When I was TBM I would take anything I perceived to be an attack on the church as an attack on me personally. I don't know if other people did/do this too. But anything even slightly negative about the church in the media made me feel so upset and so misused. In my TBM mind, the church was true and because Jesus was at the head of the church the church could do no wrong. So if I had received clear evidence like this recording, first I would feel attacked and all the church training to victim blame would kick in. It makes me so sick to think that I might have been like the other TBMs blaming this poor girl and trying so hard to not see (or hear) the clear truth in the recording.

I'm really glad to hear about the TBMS in your lives that are siding with the victim. I hope I would have been like them.

[Thoughtful]

I've been discussing with a few TBM friends and they are very, very upset by this situation as well, and all have had personal experiences with ecclesiastical abuse to the point it's believable to them that it happened and the church won't side with the victim.

[Hermey]

Some food for thought....

Why sexual abuse goes unnoticed

[IT_Veteran]

I posted about this on FB yesterday. A cousin and I had a great discussion on the victim blaming and the obfuscation of the church.

My TBM mom later posted just the church statement. I made a somewhat long comment about it, though didn’t think I was attacking her. She gave me the spiel about imperfect people, etc, and then bore her testimony of faith and the one true church, etc. Said she felt attacked.

I apologized and told her I didn’t want her to feel attacked, that I respect her, and that we should probably avoid further discussion of it last night.

[græy]

I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmed but I do have to fight the urge to mention it to my wife. I mostly overcome that urge by considering how the conversation is likely to go.

Same with me. But I think I may try to mention it tonight. The fact that is in SLTrib might make it easier for her to accept as an actual thing and not anti-mormon lies.

I'm as tired of reading the reddit exmo witchhunt as I am reading apologist TBM crap. There are no winners in this story, just tragedy all around, as most of these cases tend to be.

Again, same here.

[Corsair]

My TBM mom later posted just the church statement. I made a somewhat long comment about it, though didn’t think I was attacking her. She gave me the spiel about imperfect people, etc, and then bore her testimony of faith and the one true church, etc. Said she felt attacked.

I apologized and told her I didn’t want her to feel attacked, that I respect her, and that we should probably avoid further discussion of it last night.

I feel fairly confident that if you took the above message and replaced "TBM Mom" with "wife", it would accurately describe the conversation I would inevitably have with my dear wife. She would not want to discuss this.

This insane story of the MTC President and his molestation victims has collected every element of my annoyance with the LDS church and distilled it into a concentrated narrative of toxicity. During Joseph Bishop's tenure, how many BYU students were right across the street receiving Honor Code violations for concensual viewing of the female form while the MTC had a furninshed rape room?

This is not a good day. I think I need to log off and go do something else.

[IT_Veteran]

Same with me. But I think I may try to mention it tonight. The fact that is in SLTrib might make it easier for her to accept as an actual thing and not anti-mormon lies.

My dad dismissed the story in the Trib because it "only exists to discredit the church" and posted a "balanced" story from KTVU. I responded with the updated story from KTVU that discussed the police report. I haven't heard back.

[slavereeno]

Yes, this one has really bugged me too. Makes me rue my decision to stay for my loved ones. I have a lot of anxiety anyway about whether or not that is even a positive sum decision, or just the easy way for me. Right now I am just not talking to DW about church stuff. I go crazy about it and we are still struggling to have rational discourse without it causing A LOT of anxiety in either or both.

What bugs the hell out of me is that the church teaches that this anxiety is due to "loss of the spirit" so for someone on the brink of realizing the truth about the church (like DW), as soon as they fell the anxiety about something that will be a huge life changer it gets attributed to "kicking against the pricks" or "losing the spirit" or whatever.

[IT_Veteran]

Yes, this one has really bugged me too. Makes me rue my decision to stay for my loved ones. I have a lot of anxiety anyway about whether or not that is even a positive sum decision, or just the easy way for me. Right now I am just not talking to DW about church stuff. I go crazy about it and we are still struggling to have rational discourse without it causing A LOT of anxiety in either or both.

What bugs the hell out of me is that the church teaches that this anxiety is due to "loss of the spirit" so for someone on the brink of realizing the truth about the church (like DW), as soon as they fell the anxiety about something that will be a huge life changer it gets attributed to "kicking against the pricks" or "losing the spirit" or whatever.

One of the first things I did was explain how I went through those feelings and then read about how our bodies are conditioned that way. I told her it's recognized in psychology as cognitive dissonance and sent her the wikipedia link to it. I don't know if she actually read it or not, but I summed it up as fight or flight mechanism kicking in when we are presented with facts that conflict with deeply held beliefs.

[slk]

Cont'd

Before I started the recording with my DW on J. Bishop, I mentioned to her that a couple of my older brothers were at the MTC the same time he was the MTC President. I then said "yeah, while my brothers spent time on their knees praying, the Sisters were down in the basement on their knees." I thought she might leave the room right then or no response at all. Her response was "well, maybe your brothers didn't pray hard enough." I got a laugh out of that!