What should you share with the Bishop?

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redjay
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by redjay » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:15 am

I wouldn't even share finger food with the bishop.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:17 am

SincereInquirer wrote:
moksha wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:23 am
SeeNoEvil wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:54 pm
SHARE NOTHING!
ZADOK'S RULE #3 - Never Confess. Anyone that wants to hear your confession is only going to use it against you. Never Confess!!!
I understand that for Catholics, the sacrament of confession can be a powerful tool for alleviating feelings of guilt, shame, and inadequacy. Of course, Catholic priests have taken a sacred oath not to reveal what is confessed to them, nor do they seek to punish penitants for what they have confessed although they might ask them to say some Hail Marys and perhaps root for the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame against USC Trojans.
Exactly. Saying some Hail Marys is completely different than confessing and getting a public shaming in return...no taking the sacrament, no participating in the sacrament (for young men), no praying at church, etc. Something for all to see that you aren't "worthy". Not a great way to alleviate feelings of shame.

It's all a bunch of BS. They only have what power you give them.
I just had a thought about what would happen if the Bishop told me not to take the sacrament anymore and I kept taking it anyway. Would he tell the Deacon to stop taking the tray to my row? Seems silly.

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wtfluff
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:31 am

Shower thought: I've asked this question before, and I'm sure I'll continue to ask it again...

Does anyone have a scriptural reference about confession?

Especially one that says I should "share" all my "sins" with my neighbor, the IT guy...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 am

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:31 am
Shower thought: I've asked this question before, and I'm sure I'll continue to ask it again...

Does anyone have a scriptural reference about confession?

Especially one that says I should "share" all my "sins" with my neighbor, the IT guy...
Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

John 20:23
When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


These are the scriptural passages drawn upon by the Roman and Greek Churches,and sometimes by the Anglican-Episcopal Church, in what for them is the Sacrament of Confession.

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:50 am

Rafael wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 am
wtfluff wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:31 am
Shower thought: I've asked this question before, and I'm sure I'll continue to ask it again...

Does anyone have a scriptural reference about confession?

Especially one that says I should "share" all my "sins" with my neighbor, the IT guy...
Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

John 20:23
When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


These are the scriptural passages drawn upon by the Roman and Greek Churches.

Many a time as a boy I sat in the veiled presence of a priest confessing my sins, and then being given certain prayers to say. Before the Reformation, the penitence process could take other forms, one of which was flagellation, and even today, the Catholic group known as Opus Dei continues this practice.
Last edited by Rafael on Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:53 am

Sorry for the repeated post. I am new here and I got myself into a tangle and then could not find a way of deleting one of these messages.

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wtfluff
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by wtfluff » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:24 am

Rafael wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 am
wtfluff wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:31 am
Shower thought: I've asked this question before, and I'm sure I'll continue to ask it again...

Does anyone have a scriptural reference about confession?

Especially one that says I should "share" all my "sins" with my neighbor, the IT guy...
Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

John 20:23
When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


These are the scriptural passages drawn upon by the Roman and Greek Churches.

Many a time as a boy I sat in the veiled presence of a priest confessing my sins, and then being given certain prayers to say. Before the Reformation, the penitence process could take other forms, one of which was flagellation, and even today, the Catholic group known as Opus Dei continues this practice.
Interesting. I personally can't see how anyone could interpret those scriptures as saying: Go tell your neighbor about your "sins".

Is confession in Catholicism "supposed" to be anonymous? Or do some Catholics sit down face-to-face with their priest for confession? What other religions traditions practice confession?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:08 am

These are the scriptures that are drawn upon however. Remember that in these religious traditions, the priest is not seen as a neighbour but occupies an elevated status. The bishop is also elevated but unlike that of the priest, the position is temporary and though he may hold another calling, he can also in principle fade back into the ranks once his term is done.
As with other scriptures however - such as those which are interpreted as supporting papal infallibility - one might with a different theological eye, reach a very different conclusion. As indeed you have with respect to those given above. Luther certainly reached conclusions from scripture different from the Roman Church, as did Calvin or Zwingli, John Knox and others.

As for the confession in Catholicism, this is done in what is called the Confessional Box: a very small room. The priest, I remember, sat behind a screen, his face hidden and one's own face concealed from his. He may or not have known the identity of the person before him, but he is forbidden to speak, outside this room, of what has been said, nor if he happens to meet and recognise the person who confessed to him, may he refer to anything said to or by that person.

As said above though, my time of confessing to anyone is long behind me, and though the bishops of the LDS chapel I sometimes attend [there are two wards sharing the same building, and I have met the bishop of each], are friendly and approachable men, I cannot imagine confessing to them. Though I am sure that each of them would be helpful if someone went to them with a problem.
What would I have to confess anyway? I could probably rake up a few misdemeanours of course. Who couldnt? But then I am not a member of the LDS, - though I am an avid student of the Church, its history and theology - and so this would never arise. Nor am I a Catholic. I am simply seeking to answer your question without bias.
As for other religious traditions that practice the "confessional", there is as said, the Greek Church, there is the High Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, where is it called Holy Absolution. and sometimes it is practiced by Baptist and Presbyterian ministers.
Last edited by Rafael on Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:12 am

Rafael wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:08 am
These are the scriptures that are drawn upon. As with other scriptures however, such as those which are interpreted as supporting papal infallibility, one might with a different theological eye, reach a very different conclusion. Luther did, and certainly Calvin or Zwingli.

As for the confessional, this is done in what is called the Confessional Box: a very small room. The priest sat behind screen, his face hidden and one's own face from his. He may or not have known the identity of the person before him, but he is forbidden to speak, outside this room, of what has been said, nor if he happens to meet and recognise the person who confessed to him, may he refer to anything said to of by that person.

As said above though, my time of confessing to anyone is long behind me, and though the bishops of the LDS chapel I sometimes attend [there are two wards sharing the same building, and I have met the bishop of each], are friendly and approachable men, I cannot imagine confessing to them. Nor needing too do so. I am not a member anyway, and so this would never arise.
Some Catholics nowadays whether priests or laity - are less formal, and they may sit down and simply have what is more like a chat together. No confessional room or box, no set words or prayer, etc. More like a counselling session. I once went on an enneagram retreat run by Catholic nuns. it was open to persons of any faith or none, and though there was the facility for confession for those who wanted it, the procedure was very relaxed and informal.
But with respect to myself and going back in time, just imaging a boy of eight or nine, having to sit in the confessional box and confesss his "sins" in order to receive the eucharist - the sacramental bread - the next day, Sunday. What nonsense!

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moksha
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by moksha » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:12 am

I turned to the Message Bible to more fully understand those two scriptures Raphael mentioned. The first one was Jesus specifically talking to Peter.
"And now I’m going to tell you who you are, really are. You are Peter, a rock. This is the rock on which I will put together my church, a church so expansive with energy that not even the gates of hell will be able to keep it out."

19 “And that’s not all. You will have complete and free access to God’s kingdom, keys to open any and every door: no more barriers between heaven and earth, earth and heaven. A yes on earth is yes in heaven. A no on earth is no in heaven.”
The second one:
John 20:21-23
20-21 The disciples, seeing the Master with their own eyes, were exuberant. Jesus repeated his greeting: “Peace to you. Just as the Father sent me, I send you.”

22-23 Then he took a deep breath and breathed into them. “Receive the Holy Spirit,” he said. “If you forgive someone’s sins, they’re gone for good. If you don’t forgive sins, what are you going to do with them?”
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Margarita
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Margarita » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:37 pm

You guys...don't share ...talk..visit..maybe mention day to day drama..but don't tell him anything personal..He may be a good man..I loved my Bishop..then he told his wife everything.... Don't. Do. It.

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Rafael
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by Rafael » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:07 am

And she was tempted to share with others what he had imparted to her? Or at least let you know that she knew what only he as bishop should have known and kept private? Whatever, it must have been very disappointing to know that he had not maintained confidentiality.

We had a chat recently, the bishop and I, but it was only a brief getting acquainted chat amidst a gathering at which I was introduced to many people, such as the Stake President, Mission President, several other authoritative looking folk - maybe high council members - and some senior missionary couples with historical Mormon surnames. All extremely kind and none of them making me feel like an outsider.
The bishop was friendly and personable, and definitely likeable, but your advice has been carefully noted!

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slavereeno
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Re: What should you share with the Bishop?

Post by slavereeno » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:43 am

Margarita wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:37 pm
then he told his wife everything
I have heard so much gossip from our current Bishop's wife! Also, a ton of stuff gets told in ward council, where there are several pairs of ears and it generally spreads from there. From my experience those "confidential" sessions are anything but, unless the bishop tries to sexually assault you, then he might keep it secret.

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