TBM in laws in my ward..

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whatififly
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TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by whatififly » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm

My husband and I are no longer comfortable attending church. We can handle the judgement from neighbors and ward members, but dread what will happen with
his family. They are in our Ward and have noticed our lack of church attendance. DH makes excuses but they sound just like that- stupid excuses- and it doesn't feel right to me to do so.

He's afraid if the fallout from his family and I can't blame him. I worry mostly about how this will affect our kids and their relationship with their grandparents. I want to live authentically and I am not ashamed at having lost my faith in Mormonism. Still, DH knows that they will take an honest discussion about our views as an attack on what they love.

I have no idea how to handle this situation. Any advice would be so appreciated.
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HighMaintenance
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by HighMaintenance » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:32 pm

My sister and her husband rented a house in the same ward as our parents when they were newlyweds. They were active for the most part, but would get grilled every time they missed a week or two. They really got tired of it and ended up buying a house just outside of town where they could attend on their own terms.
Somewhere on a toilet wall I read the words 'You form a line to formalize the former lies.' And I finally saw the truth - Slipknot

ap1054
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by ap1054 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:41 pm

Wish I could provide some helpful advice, but don't have any... :( All I can say is sorry - can't imagine what it would be like to be in the same ward as family while it's all going down.

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Hermey
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by Hermey » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:46 pm

Watch this video. Just substitute coming out gay with leaving the church.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxAa2Hd7q8k

Thoughtful
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by Thoughtful » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:53 pm

whatififly wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm
My husband and I are no longer comfortable attending church. We can handle the judgement from neighbors and ward members, but dread what will happen with
his family. They are in our Ward and have noticed our lack of church attendance. DH makes excuses but they sound just like that- stupid excuses- and it doesn't feel right to me to do so.

He's afraid if the fallout from his family and I can't blame him. I worry mostly about how this will affect our kids and their relationship with their grandparents. I want to live authentically and I am not ashamed at having lost my faith in Mormonism. Still, DH knows that they will take an honest discussion about our views as an attack on what they love.

I have no idea how to handle this situation. Any advice would be so appreciated.
I'm in a similar boat with some IL in my ward and others in my stake. We have been able to decrease activity slightly (We attend most weeks, but miss if there's any kind of excuse). No one has said anything about it to us. They are probably talking about us though. I don't think anyone else has noticed.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:29 pm

Yeah, that's a tough one. And at the moment it seems you have two options - continue to go and hate it so you don't have to deal with your family on a "heathen" basis, or deal with the fallout sooner than you want to. That seems to be it, and I wish I had better advice for you on how to navigate it. If you go, can you do it on your terms so it's not so painful? That seems to make everyone happy around here, and church is more enjoyable now that I see how stupid it is. But that way is certainly not for everybody. Ripping the bandaid off is painful, but gets you where you need to go quicker.

Boy, this is pretty depressing to contemplate. I'm at a loss for any advice for you, can I just offer you some support, empathy and internet hugs?
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
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IT_Veteran
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:36 am

For me, it just got too painful to be at church and hear the messages that were taught. I sat down and wrote an email to send to all of my immediate family and my in-laws. In it I made a few specific points. I also addressed why I was sending an email instead of talking about it face-to-face or over the phone. Specifically, I loved them and knew that this is an emotional topic. I felt like I needed to get everything out that I needed to say without tempering it to preserve their feelings.
  • I love you all and that has not changed
  • I no longer believe in the church
  • This is really hard for me to admit and it's kind of scary
  • I treasure our relationship and hope that you can respect my change in belief
  • Please give it some time before reacting/reaching out so you can process the new information
  • My mind is made up. I don't mind talking about my issues, but please understand that I will not come back or change my mind
  • I don't need to be rescued
  • I will support my wife and children in their belief, whatever that may be
If there is any interest, I can post the letter in it's entirety (I might have already done so somewhere else on the site, I can't remember)

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oliblish
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by oliblish » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:52 am

IT_Veteran wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:36 am
For me, it just got too painful to be at church and hear the messages that were taught. I sat down and wrote an email to send to all of my immediate family and my in-laws. In it I made a few specific points. I also addressed why I was sending an email instead of talking about it face-to-face or over the phone. Specifically, I loved them and knew that this is an emotional topic. I felt like I needed to get everything out that I needed to say without tempering it to preserve their feelings.
  • I love you all and that has not changed
  • I no longer believe in the church
  • This is really hard for me to admit and it's kind of scary
  • I treasure our relationship and hope that you can respect my change in belief
  • Please give it some time before reacting/reaching out so you can process the new information
  • My mind is made up. I don't mind talking about my issues, but please understand that I will not come back or change my mind
  • I don't need to be rescued
  • I will support my wife and children in their belief, whatever that may be
If there is any interest, I can post the letter in it's entirety (I might have already done so somewhere else on the site, I can't remember)
So what was the response?
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by Corsair » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:18 am

IT_Veteran wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:36 am
If there is any interest, I can post the letter in it's entirety (I might have already done so somewhere else on the site, I can't remember)
Let us know how your in-laws react. We would enjoye seeing your letter and then seeing how it is received.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:36 am

Long post with the letters that were sent.

My letter:
Family:

First, let me say that I love you all very much and appreciate your love as well. As many of you know, I have been struggling with my testimony of God and the church. This has been a struggle for me for a very long time, longer than I think anyone knows. I have reached a point in my life where I no longer believe in the church. I don’t know what, if anything, I do believe in at this point, it is something I continue to ponder. I had a conversation with Mrs. IT_Veteran this week to let her know that I am not going to continue in the church.

I know that this is difficult for everyone. I did not reach this decision easily. Even after I made the decision, it took several more months before I was even able to write it down, let alone talk about it. Being raised in the church helped shape me into the person I am now and I am grateful for it. However, I can no longer pretend to believe in something I do not. I have to be honest with myself and with those around me, especially my family. It’s been a very hard thing to live with this weighing on me and feeling unable to talk about it.

I am grateful for the support of a loving wife. She has been incredibly supportive throughout and continues to be now. We are still figuring out how this decision impacts our family life, we understand that it will be significant. I love her dearly and we are both committed to each other. I will continue to support her and the kids in their own membership.

I love you all. Please take a few days to reflect on your own feelings about this before we talk about it. I am willing to discuss my decision, but not to change it. I wish I had the courage to face each one of you and discuss this in person, rather than write it in a letter. The simple truth is that I don't. I don't have confidence that I could sit down and say what needs to be said in the emotion of the moment. I really felt like I needed to get this out there all at once, without trying to explain my way through it.

I love you all,
IT_Veteran
Most of the responses were simply that they loved me. Or that they were sad, but still loved me.

Here is the letter my FIL sent:
IT_Veteran,

I am a little conflicted as I reply back to your email. Part of me wants slap you & wake you up, part of me wants to reach out & give you a hug of support & help you, & part is very aware of my wife's & your wife's lazer beam eyes pointed at me, should I say the wrong thing. (And you thought you had pressure). So to be up front, honest, & so that when we talk down the road, you are not second guessing what I may or may not be thinking, I would like to touch on a few things.

1) I was told not to "fix" this, but I am one who likes to fix things, sometimes breaking them, just so I can fix them. (Generally the breaking was not part of the original plan, it just happens sometimes) But I am afraid this is NOT something I can fix. This is all yours. But I can help in any way you need help. Be it talking on the phone, in person, by email, or by not talking, as the case may be.

2) I was asked to not reply for a few days, which I have done. :-)

3) Concerns I have about this journey you have chosen, or that has chosen you.
a) I know this will come as a shock, but I am not 29 years old. In the XXX years of my life I have seen many many families that had problems & issues when the father leaves or changes religions/beliefs. The kids never come out of it unscathed. The older they are, & the more stable they are, the better chance they have. Of your 3 children, 1-2 of them will likely follow in your footsteps, at some time in the future, wherever you may lead them. If you do not believe in God, then if they follow you, it may not bother you, but to the rest of us, it is of concern. The pressure on your wife to keep things at a spiritual normal for the kids, doing it by herself, will be significantly higher than before. An example would be her trip to the temple, alone, for some spiritual reinforcement.
b) Even the families who stay tight together in the church, still have problems with some of their children. The devil is real, is pretty smart, has lots of helpers, (1/3rd of the host of heaven, divided by the number on people on the earth now, that is like what, a 1,000 people to work on each one of us, that we cannot see that are trying to make our lives a mess), & a lot of tools that he knows how to use. Even in the best of cases, it is going to be hard to save our families.
c) If you remove your name from the church records while you are on this journey of discovery, your eternal family blessings are at risk. They can be restored, but if something happens before then. Just saying.....

4) Things to consider.
a) I do not know what things have caused your faith to shake, but remember, none of us have a perfect knowledge of those things we cannot see or touch. We are all running on faith, hope, & those times when the Spirit talks to us.
b) We all have our challenges, some have very hard ones, some have what seems like one after another, some of us make our challenges worse by making mistakes on top of them, some die young & may never know what their challenge was. We need to stand tall & do the best we can, after all this life is a test to see how we will behave without sure knowledge of the other side.
c) Things to note:
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over, but you lived a good life
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is a God - you are toast
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is a God - the rewards will be awesome
d) If your family is important to you, may I suggest you do a lot of praying, from the soul. If you listen, you will hear him, it may not be in the way or when you think it should be, but if you are open & listening, you will hear Him. I promise He will, but be warned, sometimes if he is having a hard time getting through, he may send a tragedy your way, to help break down the wall that you may have unknowingly built.

5) As I have told you before, MIL & I love & support you. You have been a great husband for our daughter, a great father to our grand kids, & a great friend to us. Please do not take too long on this journey & please remain protective of your wife & children. If there is anything we can do to help, just let us know.

It is not my intent to have offended you in anyway, & I am hopeful that I have been able to convey my thoughts without offending you. If I have, I am sorry.

Love
FIL
This letter made me angry, especially for the parts about God sending tragedy my way. It also made my wife angry, she hasn't spoken to her dad in any substantive conversation since. She evidently asked him specifically not to write and send something like this and he assured her that he would not. He sent it the next day.

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JustHangingOn@57
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by JustHangingOn@57 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am

IT_Veteran wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:36 am

4) Things to consider.
a) I do not know what things have caused your faith to shake, but remember, none of us have a perfect knowledge of those things we cannot see or touch. We are all running on faith, hope, & those times when the Spirit talks to us.
b) We all have our challenges, some have very hard ones, some have what seems like one after another, some of us make our challenges worse by making mistakes on top of them, some die young & may never know what their challenge was. We need to stand tall & do the best we can, after all this life is a test to see how we will behave without sure knowledge of the other side.
c) Things to note:
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over, but you lived a good life
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is a God - you are toast
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is a God - the rewards will be awesome
d) If your family is important to you, may I suggest you do a lot of praying, from the soul. If you listen, you will hear him, it may not be in the way or when you think it should be, but if you are open & listening, you will hear Him. I promise He will, but be warned, sometimes if he is having a hard time getting through, he may send a tragedy your way, to help break down the wall that you may have unknowingly built.

Love
FIL
Item 4.C.3 makes you think, doesn't it? If I die, and I don't believe in Mormon god, I'm toast (whatever that means). What if I'm not sure if there is a God? What if I believe in an intelligent being who created life on earth (ok,"God") but don't believe he/she/it is Mormon God?

If I'm not mistaken, if I am "...toast" I'll be assigned to the land of the TK smoothies.

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slavereeno
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by slavereeno » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:40 am

IT_Veteran, thanks for sharing those letters, both of them.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:44 am

No problem, I hope it helps someone else in whatever way they need it.

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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:47 am

JustHangingOn@57 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am

Item 4.C.3 makes you think, doesn't it? If I die, and I don't believe in Mormon god, I'm toast (whatever that means). What if I'm not sure if there is a God? What if I believe in an intelligent being who created life on earth (ok,"God") but don't believe he/she/it is Mormon God?

If I'm not mistaken, if I am "...toast" I'll be assigned to the land of the TK smoothies.
Maybe he counts me among the sons of perdition now? IDK. More importantly IDGAF. I mean, I want to have a good relationship with the guy, but he's got to be the other half of that relationship. I'm willing to just be me and accept him for who he is, if he can do the same for me. If not, I guess I'll see him at Christmas or something? They're supposed to come visit this July, so we'll see how it goes. I have to work that week so I can be somewhat flexible in how much time I spend at home if I need to.

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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:51 pm

IT_Veteran wrote:
JustHangingOn@57 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am

Item 4.C.3 makes you think, doesn't it? If I die, and I don't believe in Mormon god, I'm toast (whatever that means). What if I'm not sure if there is a God? What if I believe in an intelligent being who created life on earth (ok,"God") but don't believe he/she/it is Mormon God?

If I'm not mistaken, if I am "...toast" I'll be assigned to the land of the TK smoothies.
Maybe he counts me among the sons of perdition now? IDK. More importantly IDGAF. I mean, I want to have a good relationship with the guy, but he's got to be the other half of that relationship. I'm willing to just be me and accept him for who he is, if he can do the same for me. If not, I guess I'll see him at Christmas or something? They're supposed to come visit this July, so we'll see how it goes. I have to work that week so I can be somewhat flexible in how much time I spend at home if I need to.
Dude, I feel your pain. I have gone through the same battle and FIL fix it project and it was painful. If he is like mine, he will eventually realize the futility and stop bringing it up. Additionally I have found myself less inclined to say things at family gatherings and just blend into the background. It's a semi comfortable status quo now.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:01 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:51 pm
IT_Veteran wrote:
JustHangingOn@57 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am

Item 4.C.3 makes you think, doesn't it? If I die, and I don't believe in Mormon god, I'm toast (whatever that means). What if I'm not sure if there is a God? What if I believe in an intelligent being who created life on earth (ok,"God") but don't believe he/she/it is Mormon God?

If I'm not mistaken, if I am "...toast" I'll be assigned to the land of the TK smoothies.
Maybe he counts me among the sons of perdition now? IDK. More importantly IDGAF. I mean, I want to have a good relationship with the guy, but he's got to be the other half of that relationship. I'm willing to just be me and accept him for who he is, if he can do the same for me. If not, I guess I'll see him at Christmas or something? They're supposed to come visit this July, so we'll see how it goes. I have to work that week so I can be somewhat flexible in how much time I spend at home if I need to.
Dude, I feel your pain. I have gone through the same battle and FIL fix it project and it was painful. If he is like mine, he will eventually realize the futility and stop bringing it up. Additionally I have found myself less inclined to say things at family gatherings and just blend into the background. It's a semi comfortable status quo now.
That's largely how I see our future discussions going too. It'll be interesting to hear the reactions and the comments about the coffee maker on the counter. Especially when the whole house starts smelling like coffee in the morning.

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Linked
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by Linked » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:05 pm

whatififly wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm
My husband and I are no longer comfortable attending church. We can handle the judgement from neighbors and ward members, but dread what will happen with
his family. They are in our Ward and have noticed our lack of church attendance. DH makes excuses but they sound just like that- stupid excuses- and it doesn't feel right to me to do so.

He's afraid if the fallout from his family and I can't blame him. I worry mostly about how this will affect our kids and their relationship with their grandparents. I want to live authentically and I am not ashamed at having lost my faith in Mormonism. Still, DH knows that they will take an honest discussion about our views as an attack on what they love.

I have no idea how to handle this situation. Any advice would be so appreciated.
That must be really hard being in the same ward as TBM family members, way more virtue signalling is required when people that close who care that much are in your ward.

My DW is still TBM and doesn't want me to be open with her side of the family so I've stayed silent, but we occasionally bump into moments where it is harder. We are in the Jordan River temple district and it is getting rededicated soon. My MIL has insisted that she care for the kids to allow us to go to the dedication. I am recommendless, so that's not going to work. So we talked about what excuse to give. I'm with you, I would rather stop with the excuses and get on with it.

I did tell my side of the family; it popped out to my parents and a few siblings on a long drive to a grandparent's funeral. They took it pretty well. I called those who weren't there the next day so everyone would be on the same page and received loving responses. Long version here. Our relationships have changed and we are a little more distant than before, but it's been ok. My parents still try to be a normal part of my kid's lives. Of course, you know your family and in-laws better than us, so you have to do what you expect will make you happiest, or least frustrated.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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SeeNoEvil
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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by SeeNoEvil » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:51 pm

whatififly wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm
My husband and I are no longer comfortable attending church. We can handle the judgement from neighbors and ward members, but dread what will happen with
his family. They are in our Ward and have noticed our lack of church attendance. DH makes excuses but they sound just like that- stupid excuses- and it doesn't feel right to me to do so.

He's afraid if the fallout from his family and I can't blame him. I worry mostly about how this will affect our kids and their relationship with their grandparents. I want to live authentically and I am not ashamed at having lost my faith in Mormonism. Still, DH knows that they will take an honest discussion about our views as an attack on what they love.

I have no idea how to handle this situation. Any advice would be so appreciated.
Sorry to hear this is happening to you. I went through something similar. There was an elderly couple in my old ward (who btw I had probably spoke 10 words to them in the many years I lived there) in the mid west that had a son who lived 100 miles away who attended another stake. He went to his doctor one day who happened to be my SIL. In the course of the exam the son commented to the doctor that his MIL (meaning Me) was in his parents ward and he heard that I had stopped coming. SIL went home and told his wife (my TBM DD) who immediately got on the phone in tears and chastised me. After much ugliness and attempts to return to church I choose what was best for me. Not best for the old couple and the son, Nor best for my DD and SIL or even my husband..... I chose what was best for me. In the end I made the decision to live my life as authentically as I could. It was never my intentions to hurt anyone but in the process of trying to please everyone the one person that really mattered was me and the turmoil over this was making me sick. Sorry I don't have a solution. I can only offer my experiences, a shoulder to lean on and lots of cyber hugs. Good luck. {{{whatififly}}} Love your name!!
"Every event that has taken place in this universe has led you to this moment.
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown

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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by shadow » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm

FIL wrote: c) Things to note:
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over, but you lived a good life
Wow! So it's impossible to live a good life if you don't believe in God? That is quite the false dichotomy. I would love to hear what his definition of living a good life is. Something tells me it might have a lot more to do with following certain rules than with love, justice, and equality for our fellow human beings, or in the vernacular, our fellow brothers and sisters.
"Healing is impossible in loneliness; it is the opposite of loneliness. Conviviality is healing. To be healed we must come with all the other creates to the feast of Creation." --Wendell Berry

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Re: TBM in laws in my ward..

Post by IT_Veteran » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:02 pm

shadow wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm
FIL wrote: c) Things to note:
- if you do not believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over
- if you believe in God, you die, & there is no God - then you no longer exist & it is over, but you lived a good life
Wow! So it's impossible to live a good life if you don't believe in God? That is quite the false dichotomy. I would love to hear what his definition of living a good life is. Something tells me it might have a lot more to do with following certain rules than with love, justice, and equality for our fellow human beings, or in the vernacular, our fellow brothers and sisters.
Having known him as long as I have, it has a lot to do with rules and adherence to commandments. I was grateful he noted in the letter that he sees me as a good father and husband, but I'm sad he thinks its because I've been a member of the church.

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