Second One to have a FC?

[slavereeno]

I handled my end of my FC poorly, I kind of drug DW to the edge of a cliff and then flung her into the abyss against her will. I wasn't patient enough, I wasn't very understanding and showed less respect for the church and her feelings than I should have.

Are there any NOMs here who might be the second spouse in the relationship to have a faith crisis? What advice would you give? Did you resent being drug into the rabbit hole? Did it make it harder to have a spouse so convinced already? Once on the slippery slope, what would have been or would be helpful from a spouse that is already on the other side of the FC?

[IT_Veteran]

I was the first, I’m sure Kalikala will stop by at some point tonshare her perspective.

She did express frustration with me yesterday while we were traveling. I’ve consistently told her that I’m okay with where she and the kids end up with their faith journey, regardless of where that ends up. Unfortunately, she has not felt my actions have aligned well with the words. She’s felt pressured every step of the way, since telling me she doesn’t believe, to move faster, be done, etc. It’s hard for me to remember sometimes that this is her journey.

[slavereeno]

She did express frustration with me yesterday while we were traveling. I’ve consistently told her that I’m okay with where she and the kids end up with their faith journey, regardless of where that ends up. Unfortunately, she has not felt my actions have aligned well with the words. She’s felt pressured every step of the way, since telling me she doesn’t believe, to move faster, be done, etc. It’s hard for me to remember sometimes that this is her journey.

I won't speak for my DW, but I think this resonates.

[Kalikala]

I was the first, I’m sure Kalikala will stop by at some point to share her perspective.

I saw this the other day, but didn't reply because of our crazy busy weekend.

Are there any NOMs here who might be the second spouse in the relationship to have a faith crisis? What advice would you give? Did you resent being drug into the rabbit hole? Did it make it harder to have a spouse so convinced already? Once on the slippery slope, what would have been or would be helpful from a spouse that is already on the other side of the FC?

I am the second spouse. It's been an adventure, that's for sure. I don't resent the rabbit hole, I jumped in willingly. What has been hard is that my husband has had a lot of time to come to terms with his disbelief. Sometimes he gets really excited (which is understandable) and forgets that this is all new and really hard and often horrifying for me. Finding a balance where we can discuss the topics and our feelings, and often disagree with each other respectfully, has been new and sometimes challenging for us. We've spent the majority of our 18 years of marriage on the same page, so this is new territory.

I think one of the things I've been struggling with is that even while I am learning and no longer believing in large parts of the church, I am still very attached to my religion. It has been a part of who I am my entire life. Even understanding that parts of it are not what I thought, even believing parts of it are incorrect, the thought of separating myself from that is very painful. I don't think I've expressed this well to my husband. So he gets excited that I'm not all in anymore and he wants to step forward, take the next step, whatever that might be. And I'm feeling paralyzed and trapped. I'm not able to take that next step yet. So having patience and letting a spouse go at their own pace would probably be my biggest advice. Be supportive, be excited, but recognize that psychologically their journey could take more or less time than yours.

[slavereeno]

I think one of the things I've been struggling with is that even while I am learning and no longer believing in large parts of the church, I am still very attached to my religion. It has been a part of who I am my entire life. Even understanding that parts of it are not what I thought, even believing parts of it are incorrect, the thought of separating myself from that is very painful. I don't think I've expressed this well to my husband. So he gets excited that I'm not all in anymore and he wants to step forward, take the next step, whatever that might be. And I'm feeling paralyzed and trapped. I'm not able to take that next step yet.

Thanks! The above paragraph I think would be helpful for her. I know I am going too fast for her liking, I am having such a difficult time being patient.

[RubinHighlander]

I did my best to let my DW go her own pace and find her own way out. I provided her reassurance by telling her that in spite of my doubts and struggles, she was my number one priority and nothing would change regarding our activity or marriage. I provided some cushion for her when I doubled down on being a good husband, which actually became easier for me when I was able to slough off the guilt and bs of the dogma; I just became a happier person. When she asked me about my doubts I was sincere and showed her how difficult it was to feel I'd been deceived and lied to about so many things. I looked for opportunities to brings things up, but not too strong, only when she expressed cog did over things on her shelf. Every situation is different, but this is what worked for us.

[slavereeno]

I provided some cushion for her when I doubled down on being a good husband, which actually became easier for me when I was able to slough off the guilt and bs of the dogma; I just became a happier person. When she asked me about my doubts I was sincere and showed her how difficult it was to feel I'd been deceived and lied to about so many things. I looked for opportunities to brings things up, but not too strong, only when she expressed cog did over things on her shelf.

I am much much happier than i was a couple of years ago before this all blew up, and I am trying to be a better person/husband/father every day. I think I kept bringing stuff up when she would try to draw me back in. I guess that was reactive and defensive on my part. I am still a little freaked about being pushed back by anybody, suggestions to go back to the fold kind of stuff.

Funny thing though sometimes my apologist friend tells me to take a break from callings or church or tithing etc., he claims I will want to come back and its ok to take a little break for Mormonism to recharge.

[Corsair]

I have never heard of anyone who handled their faith crisis "well". The way to handle it best is to involve your spouse early in your own process, but at that point you are not knowledgeable enough to actually know that. Plus, if your spouse reacts badly then you don't yet know enough about a faith crisis to deal with that either. By the time you are in an emotionally stable place to do a faith crisis correctly, the time has long past when it would have been effective. And most people have long since let their spouse and family know in some less elegant way involving tears, angry words, and threats both temporal and divine.

The one party who could ease this transition is the church itself, and their is absolutely no benefit for it to do so. It has been my true desire that some apostle would kindly give a general conference address telling the faithful spouses to be kind to their apostate spouse and stick with them. 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 is explicitly relevant to this topic but has never been mentioned in any conference talk or church publication I have ever found. The LDS church uses the scriptures like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support rather than illumination.

John Dehlin just released the final piece of his brilliant Mormon Stories interview with Roger Hendrix. Brother Hendrix is a former mission president and current unbeliever who has little interest in removing himself from the church (spoiler alert: no Second Anointing). He noted that the institutional church is safest with a policy of conservative retrenchment. Concessions to liberal believers and apostates will cost more than it is worth. Liberals are not the future of LDS leadership, the conservatives are. If you appeal to the liberals, then the conservatives get annoyed and go hang out with Denver Snuffer. Meanwhile, the liberals enjoy the loosening of policy but do not turn into the kind of men that are needed for bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, Seventies, and Apostles.

On the other hand, if you tick off the liberals (i.e., the November 2015 policy), they just cry and moan and leave the church but were not likely to be all that useful to the institutional organization anyway. But the conservatives breathe a quiet sigh of relief knowing that their church is validating their own sacrifices against liberal ideas.

This long winded explanation is why it's still really hard on individuals, marriages, and families to have a faith crisis. We cannot expect the LDS church to actually help.

[slavereeno]

The way to handle it best is to involve your spouse early in your own process, but at that point you are not knowledgeable enough to actually know that. Plus, if your spouse reacts badly then you don't yet know enough about a faith crisis to deal with that either. By the time you are in an emotionally stable place to do a faith crisis correctly, the time has long past when it would have been effective.

This is a good point Corsair, it really is a "chicken and egg" kind of problem. The Sullivan's kind of seem to have done it a bit more together than I did with my DW, but either way somebody ends up being the spark.

The LDS church uses the scriptures like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support rather than illumination.

This is an awesome quote.

This long winded explanation is why it's still really hard on individuals, marriages, and families to have a faith crisis. We cannot expect the LDS church to actually help.

In my conversations with DW, she is frustrated by the doubling down and lack of acceptance for those having a FC. She is hoping for a more open church at some time in the future. Your explanation make sense, but paints a bleak outlook for the church to capitulate to this. The non-believer will not be welcomed any time soon.

[IT_Veteran]

The non-believer will not be welcomed any time soon.

I've wondered how much of this is intentional. I mean, the church teaches that happiness comes from membership in the church and adherence to the gospel. If apostates aren't happy, that proves their point. They don't acknowledge that the source of unhappiness for many of us is how our disaffection from the church impacts close relationships. They're selling the problem, the solution, and manipulating people to prove it.

[shadow]

The non-believer will not be welcomed any time soon.

I've wondered how much of this is intentional. I mean, the church teaches that happiness comes from membership in the church and adherence to the gospel. If apostates aren't happy, that proves their point. They don't acknowledge that the source of unhappiness for many of us is how our disaffection from the church impacts close relationships. They're selling the problem, the solution, and manipulating people to prove it.

I suffered an episode of major depressive disorder recently, which prompted me to start going to therapy. During some of our initial discussions and as my therapist got to know more about me, she thought I probably have also been experiencing persistent depressive disorder/dysthymia for years. Looking back, I can pretty easily correlate this with the beginning of my faith transition, to the pain I experienced going down the rabbit hole. I didn't start the process with my wife, so as the pain of disaffection started to lessen, I became more open with my wife, which has compounded and been the catalyst of marital discord. So, yeah, it's been a rough 10-12 years.

When I discussed this idea of me having persistent depressive disorder with my wife, she said the reason was obvious. That once I stopped believing, I lost the spirit, so of course I felt depressed. I intellectually understand how my disaffection has affected my mental health and my relationships. Recognizing that effect is helpful in minimizing further impact on my mental health. Still, knowing that my wife firmly believes that my depression is a result of losing the spirit doesn't exactly help me feel hopeful.

[slavereeno]

Still, knowing that my wife firmly believes that my depression is a result of losing the spirit doesn't exactly help me feel hopeful.

This is tough, when your friends or family believe that when bad things happen to a believer that those are righteous trials but when bad things that happen to the unbeliever it's a punishment for unbelief. This was recently brought up in another thread when this concept was taught over the pulpit. It's institutional

[Cadahangel]

I was once told by a pastor that when you feel comfortable and there is no problems happening to you that means you are going the way. When you go the right way the devil doesn't like it and will attack you. Throws that kind of thinking away. I wonder why so many feel complacent and comfortable in the church. Makes you think right?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

I was once told by a pastor that when you feel comfortable and there is no problems happening to you that means you are going the way. When you go the right way the devil doesn't like it and will attack you. Throws that kind of thinking away. I wonder why so many feel complacent and comfortable in the church. Makes you think right?

Both philosophies seem equally problematic for me. It seems like a primitive superstitious way to explain common life circumstances. Just like our ancestors did with multiple Gods before Zoraster came up with monotheism.

[IT_Veteran]

Still, knowing that my wife firmly believes that my depression is a result of losing the spirit doesn't exactly help me feel hopeful.

This is tough, when your friends or family believe that when bad things happen to a believer that those are righteous trials but when bad things that happen to the unbeliever it's a punishment for unbelief. This was recently brought up in another thread when this concept was taught over the pulpit. It's institutional

Yeah, this was pretty much my FIL's message to me too. His two essential arguments were:

• I cannot be truly happy or raise happy kids without the church. The happiness I think I feel is counterfeit

• I should pray to know God. If God is having a hard time getting through to me, he may send tragedy my way to "wake me up"

That's a pretty messed up view of God if you ask me. I don't want anything to do with that guy.

Both philosophies seem equally problematic for me. It seems like a primitive superstitious way to explain common life circumstances. Just like our ancestors did with multiple Gods before Zoraster came up with monotheism.

That was one of the things that broke my shelf. Realizing that all of this is just a way for humans to explain their suffering, their origins, and why they should have power over each other. Realizing that the Mormon origin story and theology isn't that different from any other was one of the heavier things on my shelf. I realized that either they were all similar because they derived from earlier stories and branched off, or that they all came from a single truth. If either of those were the case, none of them are actually correct now.