Evolving temple experience

[græy]

Through a strange twist of fate I was unable to get out of a trip to the temple for an endowment session today. This marked the first time I've gone to the temple (for endowments) in nearly two years. The last time was just a couple weeks after I first started learning about the church's truth crisis.

Today's session was not easy.

I have to admit there was some small part of me that hoped I might feel something, even though I've never felt anything special while doing endowments in the past. Baptisms, or even meditating in the celestial room have always seemed far more worthwhile to me. Even still, I hoped Good might give me something, anything.

I nearly laughed when first changing into my temple clothes because I realized I had forgotten to wear my garment top, as has been the norm for me for months now. Now that I think of it, maybe that's the reason I didn't feel anything right? God won't reach out to us unless we're a perfect as we know how to be.

Either way, I proceeded to the session and found myself... unable to do... anything. Say the right name? I didn't care enough to look up which name I had on my card. Bow my head and say yes? I didn't say anything. Change the robe? I sat in my chair for at least 30 seconds just watching people around me race to not be the last one standing, before getting up to lazily do what I had to to get through the endless hours.

We finally made it to the really culty part of the program and I still couldn't get myself to say the words. I clearly blurted out "Oh Todd, fold the sleeves of the blouse." But no one noticed. During the prayer I sat and stared around the room. Half the women were fidgeting with their veils the whole time.

Speaking of veils, I have a theory about why they are even a thing, but I'll have to share that some other time.

In the end, the whole event was just... ludicrous. Such a waste of time. A whole Saturday gone. There was nothing meaningful there, there never was. No matter how fully I believed in the past, no matter how righteous I was trying to be, there was nothing there for me. And there never will be.

I do not want to go back.

[Bremguy]

The last time I went to the Temple was back 5 years ago ? For the sealing of my Daughter and her Husband.
About the only saving grace for that was seeing how happy it made my daughter and the Sealer I have known for 35 some years. So he really personalized it for us.

The first time I went, was for my own living ordinances. I really never liked it, and didn't get much from going.
The 2nd time was getting sealed with my 3 kids. Didn't get anything out of it.

I know you aren't the first person to feel the way you do. I think it is more common than one would be lead to believe.
About the only thing I did enjoy, was looking at the woodwork and carpentry. Quite impressive and top notch.
The Celestial room was ok. But I got nothing from meditating there. Then again, with temple people watching your ever move, it just didn't feel right. I would have loved to just take a tour of the temple itself. Walk around to the various rooms, the heating, cooling, etc systms. I felt during the entire time, I was being herded, like cattle to slaughter. For supposedly being the House of the Lord, I felt like more being in a stuffy museum.

In fact, I recently let my TR lapse. Partly out of indifference and partly because I have no need for one, since I wont go back.

I was on the original NOM 1.0 board a while back. Temple experiences or more truthful, lack of them were a common thread. Perhaps, it is one reason we are here. I wanted to have filet Mignon, and only got cardboard.

[Hagoth]

Speaking of veils, I have a theory about why they are even a thing, but I'll have to share that some other time

At firs skim I thought you were talking about the other veil, which peaked my interest because I just read something kind of interesting in the Freemason's Compendium:

Within this Royal Arch Tabernacle are four veils, somewhat patterned after the decorations of Solomon's Temple...The White Veil is a symbol of purity, and is a reminder to the candidate, who is now almost at the close of his search in Royal Arch Masonry, that it is only by purity of heart and life that he can hope to be successful in, or found worthy of the reception of Divine Truth. Passage through each of these veils is also represented by significant Mosaic Signs, each of them deeply important in its symbolism.

Add this information to excerpts from the ceremony from Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry:
"The Deacon now takes the candidate by the arm and leads him forward to the door of the lodge; and upon arriving there he gives three raps... 'Brother Gabe who has been regularly initiated as Entered Apprentice now wishes to receive more light in Masonry..."

Handshakes are exchanged:
"Warden takes hold of candidate's hand and places his thumb on the first joint of candidate's hand and says to the conductor:
"What is that?"
Names are given for the handshakes and answers whispered, then:
" What is that ?"
"The real grip of a Fellow Craft."
"Has it a name?"
"It has."
"Will you give it to me?"
"I did not so receive it, neither can I so impart it."

The message is given to him via code.

"The Master then says: "Let him enter."

I would love to hear your theory about the other veils, Graey.

[Hagoth]

You know what I find much more difficult to sit through than the endowment? Temple dedications! They have to be the most boring meetings ever devised, and the worst in terms of delivering no information but merely serving as a big shining example of how the church worships itself.

I remember looking so forward to the Hosanna Shout my first time, and quite disappointed by the actual Hosanna Mumble.

Yes, I am going to the Jordan River dedication tomorrow. Hosanna, hosanna, hosanna ya'll.

[2bizE]

You know what I find much more difficult to sit through than the endowment? Temple dedications! They have to be the most boring meetings ever devised, and the worst in terms of delivering no information but merely serving as a big shining example of how the church worships itself.

I remember looking so forward to the Hosanna Shout my first time, and quite disappointed by the actual Hosanna Mumble.

Yes, I am going to the Jordan River dedication tomorrow. Hosanna, hosanna, hosanna ya'll.

I second this.

[Reuben]

You know what I find much more difficult to sit through than the endowment? Temple dedications! They have to be the most boring meetings ever devised, and the worst in terms of delivering no information but merely serving as a big shining example of how the church worships itself.

I remember looking so forward to the Hosanna Shout my first time, and quite disappointed by the actual Hosanna Mumble.

Yes, I am going to the Jordan River dedication tomorrow. Hosanna, hosanna, hosanna ya'll.

I second this.

I third it. Motion passed. This was so disappointing my first time. After that, I was disappointed that I couldn't expect more. I was in a gospel quartet and knew how to make a joyful noise.

Mormons! So dour.

The Hosanna Shout, the last vestige of charismatic Mormonism in the Brighamite church, was introduced at the Kirtland Temple dedication. This was long before all the European immigrants brought their conservative Protestant worship to Utah. Culturally, the Shout just doesn't fit anymore, but dammit, Joseph Smith did it, so Mormons do it too, to prove to themselves that they're in the same church.

I think it's ironic that Mormon conservatism constrains Mormons to mimic a practice that was originally anything but conservative. I'll bet fasting followed by a stiff drink at the dedication would loosen them up. They might even see angels!

[Reuben]

I was on the original NOM 1.0 board a while back. Temple experiences or more truthful, lack of them were a common thread. Perhaps, it is one reason we are here. I wanted to have filet Mignon, and only got cardboard.

When you say cardboard, do you mean the church in general or temple experiences in particular?

I think because the reality of the church's claims must exist entirely your head, whether you get cardboard or filet mignon depends on whether you believe in the claims. If you do, it can be a feast. If you don't, you struggle to find any nutritional value at all. The only non-cardboard I found in the church after my disaffection was related to knowing and serving living people. The temple, on the other hand... cardboard.

The thing is, the bond I have with my wife is the same way. Its reality exists only in my head and my wife's head. We both believe in it strongly. If I were to become as disaffected with it as I am with the church... cardboard.

That's not going to happen, though. She hasn't given me anywhere near so many reasons to lose faith.

[Hagoth]

I think because the reality of the church's claims must exist entirely your head, whether you get cardboard or filet mignon depends on whether you believe in the claims.

learn something new every time I stick my head in a cardboard box.

[moksha]

I remember hearing the recommendation, for those going to the Temple for the first time, to read the Temple Ceremony which could be found with a google search in order to be inoculated from the weird stuff. That was on top of the Temple Preparation class since those making the recommendation knew the Temple Prep class would not provide that faith saving information. They knew that too many individuals and couples ended up shaking their heads with the realization that this was not what they had originally signed up for when they first thought about going to the Temple.

To be forewarned is to be four-armed.

[Bremguy]

I was on the original NOM 1.0 board a while back. Temple experiences or more truthful, lack of them were a common thread. Perhaps, it is one reason we are here. I wanted to have filet Mignon, and only got cardboard.

When you say cardboard, do you mean the church in general or temple experiences in particular?

The temple in particular, nothing is there for me. The Church in general, mostly because of the endless rehashing of GC talks that are rehashed.

But much like you, I do find helping and serving others is very worthwhile. What I think the Church should be about in the first place.

[græy]

I think because the reality of the church's claims must exist entirely your head, whether you get cardboard or filet mignon depends on whether you believe in the claims. If you do, it can be a feast. If you don't, you struggle to find any nutritional value at all. The only non-cardboard I found in the church after my disaffection was related to knowing and serving living people. The temple, on the other hand... cardboard.

Agreed.

[nibbler]

I think because the reality of the church's claims must exist entirely your head, whether you get cardboard or filet mignon depends on whether you believe in the claims.

learn something new every time I stick my head in a cardboard box.

And I hear it helps if you put a rock in it.

[sparky]

I too was roped into attending an endowment session this past week, for the first time in nearly three years. I've reached the stage where I can participate in churchy things mostly with feelings of utter apathy and indifference rather than anger, for the sake of DW. So I went in expecting nothing and decided to use the free time to think about some personal projects I'm working on.

I did make some progress on that front, but I also found myself watching the movie in the role of a film critic and thinking about the devastating review I would write about the script and acting (the cinematography is decent but not enough to save the film).

I did remember the new name (I guess I'm not supposed to disclose this, but it was Saul), but instead of using it during the ceremony I used the name Jimmy John, except at the veil (I was hungry). When I was supposed to bow my head and say "yes" I raised my head and said "hasa diga eebowai". I also thought about what song would be best to set a phone alarm to at some random time during the session and "accidentally" leave it on in my locker (I think "Never Gonna Give You Up" would be appropriate, any other suggestions?).

All in all mostly a waste of time, but I kept myself entertained and wasn't destroyed for mocking God as threatened. It made DW very happy that I went, which made me very sad, but she's worth it. Hoping to avoid it for another three years.

[Hagoth]

The temple dedication today was a remarkable example of how the church has become so internally self referencing (GAs quoting each other and members quoting GAs quoting each other), and how the object of our worship seems to be the organization itself, that I think they might as well just change the name to The Church of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Amidst all of the echo chamber quoting one of the speakers quoted something from the Book of Mormon and it stood out against the background group-talk as something alien from an entirely different theology.

[Arcturus]

I clearly blurted out "Oh Todd, fold the sleeves of the blouse."

Literally LOL’d around a group of people when I read this.

[Coop]

I don't post often so please excuse me if I offend anyone because of my blunt manner. I'm really a nice person at heart. At least my wife tells me I am and I don't like to disagree with her so I defer to her opinion.

I would like to ask a simple question and I hope that it will evoke an open discussion. I also recognize that it might start an argument but I think it might be worth the risk. So for those who find the Temple experience box like here is my question.

When does it make sense, to do something, that doesn't make sense?

[Reuben]

When does it make sense, to do something, that doesn't make sense?

When you trust the person who asked you to do it, or you trust someone who says that it works, or you have direct experience that it works.

We do this all the time. I'm tapping on a piece of glass to converse with a stranger. That's weird! How does it even work? Some people know, and we trust them, and we have direct experience and testimony from others.

The temple can work like that. To get much out of it, though, the church's metaphysics have to be real enough for you. Otherwise it's just a really quiet castle full of old people where you have to put on funny clothes and say and do things you don't really mean.

[græy]

When does it make sense, to do something, that doesn't make sense?

When you trust the person who asked you to do it, or you trust someone who says that it works, or you have direct experience that it works.

This. I feel that most of us spent most of our lives trusting parents and/or church authorities that even though it didn't make sense if you thought too deeply, it was still worth while in the long run.

After realizing that the church uses the same half-truths that we malign Lucifer for, I began to question everything. I came to the conclusion that my own personal experience is the only thing I can really thoroughly trust.

I do not blindly trust the church when they tell me the temple means something, and my own experience/reasoning tells me it has too many contradictions and stolen masonry bits (unintentional pun!?) to be real. And just like that the temple is a joke, a time sink, and cult mindset reinforcement mechanism which I want nothing more to do with.

[Kalikala]

I have a good friend that offered to go on a little temple trip, just the two of us, because she knows I've struggled with my husband leaving the church. I haven't told her about my FC. So I'm slightly horrified and at the same time morbidly curious to go to the temple again. Last time I went I was fully believing. Part of me hopes I can find some kind of positive in it since it is likely that I will be faking it for quite some time.

[Reuben]

I have a good friend that offered to go on a little temple trip, just the two of us, because she knows I've struggled with my husband leaving the church. I haven't told her about my FC. So I'm slightly horrified and at the same time morbidly curious to go to the temple again. Last time I went I was fully believing. Part of me hopes I can find some kind of positive in it since it is likely that I will be faking it for quite some time.

Here are a few things that helped me enjoy the endowment intellectually when I was a NOM-leaning TBM and starting to get bored silly with it.

1. Start with this idea and work backwards. At the veil, you're given God the Father's administrator password. Then you log in as him.

2. Find Jesus. The atonement is the fall in reverse, and vice-versa. (Adam taken out of ground, Jesus put in the ground, etc.) Another way to put it: the atonement is all about returning to an innocent garden-of-Eden-like state by doing the fall backwards.

3. Where did the coats of skins given to Adam and Eve come from? It was the first sacrifice, a symbol of Christ. This suggests what the garment means, and it's not the ability to survive a fire or stop a bullet.

This is rather beautiful stuff to me, which is unfortunately ruined by other aspects of the temple.

If you can give yourself emotional distance, you could approach these next two like an anthropologist. Warning: if you do, you might become averse to going back.

4. Learn about the penalties that were removed in 1990, and the connections between the signs and penalties. (Honestly, they're horrifying.)

5. Identify every method of social control used, starting before you enter the temple.