"Why don't you want to believe?"

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Reuben
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by Reuben » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:36 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
I think my basic summary, that I have used over and over again, is: "each of us is on our own path and we need to find our own way through life and no one else has the right to dictate what that should be."
But it's not me dictating your life path, it's God.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Dravin
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Location: Indiana

Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by Dravin » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:22 pm

Reuben wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:36 am
But it's not me dictating your life path, it's God.
God is welcome to tell me himself if he thinks I should be living a certain way. If he's incapable of telling me himself he's so weak I'm no sure why I should concern myself with what he thinks, and if he doesn't care to tell me himself he must not consider it very important. So either I don't care or he doesn't care.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

Reuben
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by Reuben » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:04 pm

Dravin wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:22 pm
Reuben wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:36 am
But it's not me dictating your life path, it's God.
God is welcome to tell me himself if he thinks I should be living a certain way. If he's incapable of telling me himself he's so weak I'm no sure why I should concern myself with what he thinks, and if he doesn't care to tell me himself he must not consider it very important. So either I don't care or he doesn't care.
Gasp. How prideful!
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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GoodBoy
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by GoodBoy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:24 pm

People believe all kinds of crazy stuff basically because they WANT to. Research shows that people make decisions emotionally (what they WANT) and then use their logical minds to find justifications for those decisions that have already been made. Of course we have all seen this behavior with people deliberately ignoring the facts and the obvious logical conclusions from the evidence.

I believe people feel "The Spirit" because they want to get that answer so badly; since it will make their lives work so much better for them. They decide to believe that then they realize that this is going to work out for them and they feel good.

I believe actually that many lose their faith because the church no longer works for them and they no longer WANT to believe for whatever reason. I think that NOMs are the exception however, because so many of us would kind of prefer to be able to stay in the church... because we HAVE to basically for our lives to work out.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by hiding in plain sight » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:44 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:40 pm
I hate this line of thought.

The bottom line is that we have ample records/history of Joseph Smith and the church to know it's not true. It isn't an issue of "not wanting" to believe. This isn't an issue of faith. I never had a problem believing in what I can't see, but I do have a problem believing in spite of what I can see.

I have to agree with this!!!!

I continue to be willing to take some things on faith and other things I am still willing to hope that they could be true. Even though there are good possibilities that something else may be true.

BUT, when the evidence is obvious and clear in the opposite direction, it isn't faith to continue to believe. It is delusion. It is willful ignorance.

I can't play that game anymore.

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alas
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by alas » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:53 pm

GoodBoy wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:24 pm
People believe all kinds of crazy stuff basically because they WANT to. Research shows that people make decisions emotionally (what they WANT) and then use their logical minds to find justifications for those decisions that have already been made. Of course we have all seen this behavior with people deliberately ignoring the facts and the obvious logical conclusions from the evidence.

I believe people feel "The Spirit" because they want to get that answer so badly; since it will make their lives work so much better for them. They decide to believe that then they realize that this is going to work out for them and they feel good.

I believe actually that many lose their faith because the church no longer works for them and they no longer WANT to believe for whatever reason. I think that NOMs are the exception however, because so many of us would kind of prefer to be able to stay in the church... because we HAVE to basically for our lives to work out.
I used to want to believe, but I never could quite make myself believe in nonsense.

My turning point came when I realized that if I ever succeeded in making myself believe, I would go from disliking myself, to hating God for being such a turd. The ONLY way for Mormonism to be “true” would be for God to love his sons, but not his daughters. The rape culture and polygamy culture in the church is all about a kind of God who is a misogynist. I DON’T want to believe in that God. When I realized that I don’t want to believe in Mormon God, I stopped trying to make the church work for me and stopped trying to make myself believe. Now I am a happy nonbeliever. If someone asked me why I don’t want to believe, I would have to tell them that I do not want to believe in a God that hates his own daughters.

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slavereeno
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Re: "Why don't you want to believe?"

Post by slavereeno » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:40 pm

alas wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:53 pm
The ONLY way for Mormonism to be “true” would be for God to love his sons, but not his daughters. The rape culture and polygamy culture in the church is all about a kind of God who is a misogynist.
I came to a similar conclusion but from a different perspective. That the ONLY way for Mormonism to be "true" was for god to love a very few of his sons and see his daughters and playthings for them. Sort of like some horrible "Good ole boys" club that I would never be good enough for. I came to the conclusion that God effed up big time when he created his sons, because a lot of them would have to wash out for polygamy to work. He only wanted a few of the sons to return, The women would then be passed around like cookies after a fireside.

I decided that even if it was all "true", I really was OK not being around Mormon God, that guys' a complete d***.

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