It’s ok if they don’t understand. I have nothing to prove to them.

[Hopebeat]

Hello! This is my rant/confession to anyone who needs to hear this.

It’s ok if they don’t understand. I have nothing to prove to them. It’s not ok for me to give my own power away.

I’m done going to church and worshiping God in a way that doesn’t resonate with me. I’m done with the lies that say you need an organization or another person to save you (baptisms for the dead comes to mind). I’m done needing to follow several books and manuals on how to live my life put out by people who want to control me. I’m done being reliant on something outside of myself to progress and grow. Because the truth is, from my experience, is you can only save yourself. You can only grow by looking within. I can only grow by letting it go.

You can save yourself and give yourself the power to leave. I can save myself and give myself the power to leave. Give yourself the power to say no. As long as I’m hiding, they still have the power. I’m done pretending to believe in things I actually don't believe in. I don’t believe God gets to be put in a box like that. The concept of God, for me, is constantly evolving. As that’s beautiful! I’m ready to follow the path my heart is taking me down.

I don’t want to leave my family behind, but if they don’t understand it’s ok. It’s ok if they don’t understand what I’m experiencing— because what I’m experiencing is from a new time, a new way of being. It’s like bringing in a person from 100 years ago and showing him our smart phones. It’s ok if he doesn’t understand, he’s from a different place, a different time, a different mindset. They don’t know what they don’t know.

Most of all, I’m trying to motivate myself to tell others I don’t believe. I’m beginning to accept that they might not ever understand this, and that’s ok. It’s not my job to make them understand or accept and love me. But it is my job to take care of myself. And saving myself from this mormon world is necessary. Realizing this is a step closer to where I need to be.

[MoPag]

The concept of God, for me, is constantly evolving. As that’s beautiful! I’m ready to follow the path my heart is taking me down.

This is beautiful! Thanks for sharing this with us.

[Lithium Sunset]

This is great, thanks for sharing! The only thing I would adjust is turning some periods into exclamation points. This is a battle cry, our battle cry! We could down grade it into a mantra but where is the fun in that?

I hope this does motivate! You are correct, we need to find our own worth. Saying you don't care what your family thinks is easy, truly feeling that way? No so much… but getting to that mindset is a healthy place to be.

There is only one TBM, my grandmother, who I don't want to know that I do not believe in the church anymore... but she is 95 and far away so I can simply bombard her with questions over the phone to distract her from questioning me. I am not above lying either. Coward of me? Who can judge but me? It's my choice and I own it; it’s what I want to do.

At the end of the day we need to be okay with who we are, better than okay. This world is wrong.... there are good people to be sure but… it can still be very complicated...

A lot of problems can be summed up with one word- BOUNDARIES, or lack thereof. In this culture, you are not taught about them, allowed to have them, and punished if you try to set them. It took me a long to time understand what my counselor was trying to teach me about boundaries. Mine are still pretty flimsy but knowledge is power and I’m working on it. Lack of boundaries, abusing thin boundaries, spreads like a disease and leaves people in mental distress, and others with power they should not have. I cannot say if the church fully understands how troublesome it would be for them if people set and keep healthy boundaries, but I do know that even your inactive/non-member family members can quickly pick up on absent/weak boundaries and learn how to exploit them if that is what they want to do.

Set strong boundaries like a mo fo. Own your feelings and what you can control, respect other’s boundaries, and make sure you build a fence with a gate around yourself, we are not building walls after all. If the people in our lives do not respect our boundaries, they are the ones with the problem, despite them trying to convince us otherwise.

Best wishes and hugs to everyone finding their own strength.

[Angel]

Hopebeat - that was absolutely beautiful.

Here is a question - if you were a G-d, and were trying to raise up other G-ds, what technique would you use? Is it a test of how well you can follow orders or a test of how well you can think for yourself? G-d is within all of us - to be found from looking within, not through relying on the arms of flesh. Peace and enlightenment come to those who see G-d within themselves and within everyone. Love everyone, allow everyone to progress on their own journeys, cherish your own journey. Smile, laughter - that is all that is needed when minds are not attuned to one another.

[Hopebeat]

This is great, thanks for sharing! The only thing I would adjust is turning some periods into exclamation points. This is a battle cry, our battle cry! We could down grade it into a mantra but where is the fun in that?

I hope this does motivate! You are correct, we need to find our own worth. Saying you don't care what your family thinks is easy, truly feeling that way? No so much… but getting to that mindset is a healthy place to be.

There is only one TBM, my grandmother, who I don't want to know that I do not believe in the church anymore... but she is 95 and far away so I can simply bombard her with questions over the phone to distract her from questioning me. I am not above lying either. Coward of me? Who can judge but me? It's my choice and I own it; it’s what I want to do.

At the end of the day we need to be okay with who we are, better than okay. This world is wrong.... there are good people to be sure but… it can still be very complicated...

A lot of problems can be summed up with one word- BOUNDARIES, or lack thereof. In this culture, you are not taught about them, allowed to have them, and punished if you try to set them. It took me a long to time understand what my counselor was trying to teach me about boundaries. Mine are still pretty flimsy but knowledge is power and I’m working on it. Lack of boundaries, abusing thin boundaries, spreads like a disease and leaves people in mental distress, and others with power they should not have. I cannot say if the church fully understands how troublesome it would be for them if people set and keep healthy boundaries, but I do know that even your inactive/non-member family members can quickly pick up on absent/weak boundaries and learn how to exploit them if that is what they want to do.

Set strong boundaries like a mo fo. Own your feelings and what you can control, respect other’s boundaries, and make sure you build a fence with a gate around yourself, we are not building walls after all. If the people in our lives do not respect our boundaries, they are the ones with the problem, despite them trying to convince us otherwise.

Best wishes and hugs to everyone finding their own strength.

Ohhh grandma! What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her, especially when she’s a distance away.

Drawing boundaries is actually huge for me right now, I’ve already established small ones, and I’m onto making the medium sized ones. It’s so much easier to say this is where my boundaries are then to try and accommodate for each individual person for sure.

Detaching from others opinions of me has been a journey, but it’s definitely possible. Part of it really is accepting that I’m the one that’s changing, not them. How can I expect them to change just because I did? It’s also accepting that people won’t understand why you want to leave their world. Oh yes, easier said than done!

[Hopebeat]

Hopebeat - that was absolutely beautiful.

Here is a question - if you were a G-d, and were trying to raise up other G-ds, what technique would you use? Is it a test of how well you can follow orders or a test of how well you can think for yourself? G-d is within all of us - to be found from looking within, not through relying on the arms of flesh. Peace and enlightenment come to those who see G-d within themselves and within everyone. Love everyone, allow everyone to progress on their own journeys, cherish your own journey. Smile, laughter - that is all that is needed when minds are not attuned to one another.

What an interesting question!

I’m going to kind of work backwards through the question if that’s ok. Through my training and my studies I really believe that The Divine really is in all of us. Spirit lives in all of us and through us it’s purpose is really just to experience life.

Picture it like this; At the start, the divine experiences it’s own existence as whole and complete... how can you really appreciate or know this completeness of yourself as a divine being? If the divine experiences life in us, in our different circumstances, then it learns how to heal itself, how to make itself while again.

You experience life through someone who is broken and has this ego (I believe ego is the real enemy and not sin) to deal with, and learning how to fill in the pieces of yourself to find that wholeness again. Experience what is missing within you, experience the emotions of that, experience it breaking over and over again. When you’re finally whole again (which isn’t necessarily when you die), you’re in the same place you started at. But through the experience of building yourself up you’ve learned and come to appreciate your wholeness. Then you come back again and you’re broken in a different way. But through it all, you’re never really broken. You’re still the divine at your core. That which never changes. Discovering that is also the purpose. Knowing that you’re perfect and whole no matter what seems to be changing around you. The ego keeps us from discovering that.

That’s how I see it through my eyes at the moment— and in no way this is the whole truth, or maybe none of it is true. Like I said my concept of all this is constantly evolving. It’s more of how I see the world, not how I would have it be if I was the divine. There’s a whole lot more I could have added to that— including individual life purposes, but I’ll leave that for another time.

Back to the original question— I don’t think the “test” should be about us following orders. I believe there’s no right or wrong— just different sets of consequences to our actions. And naturally some things work better then others. I think that having us think for ourselves sets us on the better path. But even then there is no right way to think either.

What’s more important is how we’re being. How we live our lives. It’s not a test to see if we get it right but having us recognize the divinity within us through our experiences. Like you said, after we realize we’re divine then we begin seeing the divinity within others. And in understanding that, it’s all perfect however it plays out.

That’s why it’s ok they don’t understand. Maybe their piece of divinity within them needs to learn how to love unconditionally and this experience is perfect in showing them that.

Hopefully that answers your question! And I think more and more of the collective will begin thinking for themselves. It’s not just a mormon problem. There’s changes coming upon us, we can’t survive blind following blind any longer. Looking within ourselves for the answers will help.

[vankimber]

Yes! I did my best to raise my kids with the mindset that we simply “don’t do” certain things, rather than “not being allowed” to do them. I always felt that “I’m not allowed” really meant “I would if I could”, and I didn’t want them to feel that doing the right thing was imposed on them. They have all grown to be their own persons with strong convictions, and 3 out of 4 have left the church and are happily living their own lives.

But a couple of months ago I realized that I had inadvertently failed to follow that philosophy myself. I was watching a good news report on gay marriage and I thought, “I remember when I wasn’t allowed to think that way.” My jaw dropped in horror! I don’t believe in “not being allowed!” But I had lived that way myself for years, without even noticing. I had given my power away and let someone else tell me what to think. But being true to the church meant being false to the deepest part of myself, and that’s a price I refuse to pay ever again.

[Hopebeat]

Yes! I did my best to raise my kids with the mindset that we simply “don’t do” certain things, rather than “not being allowed” to do them. I always felt that “I’m not allowed” really meant “I would if I could”, and I didn’t want them to feel that doing the right thing was imposed on them. They have all grown to be their own persons with strong convictions, and 3 out of 4 have left the church and are happily living their own lives.

But a couple of months ago I realized that I had inadvertently failed to follow that philosophy myself. I was watching a good news report on gay marriage and I thought, “I remember when I wasn’t allowed to think that way.” My jaw dropped in horror! I don’t believe in “not being allowed!” But I had lived that way myself for years, without even noticing. I had given my power away and let someone else tell me what to think. But being true to the church meant being false to the deepest part of myself, and that’s a price I refuse to pay ever again.

That’s beautiful! Sometimes the best advice we need is our own advice we give to others, hehe .

[Angel]

What an interesting question!

I’m going to kind of work backwards through the question if that’s ok. Through my training and my studies I really believe that The Divine really is in all of us. Spirit lives in all of us and through us it’s purpose is really just to experience life.

Picture it like this; At the start, the divine experiences it’s own existence as whole and complete... how can you really appreciate or know this completeness of yourself as a divine being? If the divine experiences life in us, in our different circumstances, then it learns how to heal itself, how to make itself while again.

You experience life through someone who is broken and has this ego (I believe ego is the real enemy and not sin) to deal with, and learning how to fill in the pieces of yourself to find that wholeness again. Experience what is missing within you, experience the emotions of that, experience it breaking over and over again. When you’re finally whole again (which isn’t necessarily when you die), you’re in the same place you started at. But through the experience of building yourself up you’ve learned and come to appreciate your wholeness. Then you come back again and you’re broken in a different way. But through it all, you’re never really broken. You’re still the divine at your core. That which never changes. Discovering that is also the purpose. Knowing that you’re perfect and whole no matter what seems to be changing around you. The ego keeps us from discovering that.

That’s how I see it through my eyes at the moment— and in no way this is the whole truth, or maybe none of it is true. Like I said my concept of all this is constantly evolving. It’s more of how I see the world, not how I would have it be if I was the divine. There’s a whole lot more I could have added to that— including individual life purposes, but I’ll leave that for another time.

Back to the original question— I don’t think the “test” should be about us following orders. I believe there’s no right or wrong— just different sets of consequences to our actions. And naturally some things work better then others. I think that having us think for ourselves sets us on the better path. But even then there is no right way to think either.

What’s more important is how we’re being. How we live our lives. It’s not a test to see if we get it right but having us recognize the divinity within us through our experiences. Like you said, after we realize we’re divine then we begin seeing the divinity within others. And in understanding that, it’s all perfect however it plays out.

That’s why it’s ok they don’t understand. Maybe their piece of divinity within them needs to learn how to love unconditionally and this experience is perfect in showing them that.

Hopefully that answers your question! And I think more and more of the collective will begin thinking for themselves. It’s not just a mormon problem. There’s changes coming upon us, we can’t survive blind following blind any longer. Looking within ourselves for the answers will help.

Perhaps it is not a test - it is all an educational experience. (Can we become educated without being tested?)

I have come to really like the idea of reincarnation - the Saṃsāra doctrine of cyclic existence. This gets rid of heaven and hell, allows everyone to experience all of the different lives out there to gain a true understanding of all and connection to all. It is just, it is merciful, it connects everyone - I just like it.

Looking within ourselves, being responsible and self-sufficient - yes, this is a good thing.

Blessings to you on your journey!

[Hopebeat]

Perhaps it is not a test - it is all an educational experience. (Can we become educated without being tested?)

I have come to really like the idea of reincarnation - the Saṃsāra doctrine of cyclic existence. This gets rid of heaven and hell, allows everyone to experience all of the different lives out there to gain a true understanding of all and connection to all. It is just, it is merciful, it connects everyone - I just like it.

Looking within ourselves, being responsible and self-sufficient - yes, this is a good thing.

Blessings to you on your journey!

Thank you! I am actually a yoga teacher and I’ve been taught and trained in the yoga philosophy. I’m very familiar with the concept of samsara— so glad you brought that up. And I can see how we probably need several lifetimes to figure this thing called life out . Using yoga as a way to break our patterns and change is something I’m passionate about. So grateful for what this path has shown me.

<3 <3 <3

[Angel]

Perhaps it is not a test - it is all an educational experience. (Can we become educated without being tested?)

I have come to really like the idea of reincarnation - the Saṃsāra doctrine of cyclic existence. This gets rid of heaven and hell, allows everyone to experience all of the different lives out there to gain a true understanding of all and connection to all. It is just, it is merciful, it connects everyone - I just like it.

Looking within ourselves, being responsible and self-sufficient - yes, this is a good thing.

Blessings to you on your journey!

Thank you! I am actually a yoga teacher and I’ve been taught and trained in the yoga philosophy. I’m very familiar with the concept of samsara— so glad you brought that up. And I can see how we probably need several lifetimes to figure this thing called life out . Using yoga as a way to break our patterns and change is something I’m passionate about. So grateful for what this path has shown me.

<3 <3 <3

That is really neat! I have been reading the Tao and studying the Bhagavad for some time now. When I feel the need to go to a temple... there is this Hare Krishna Temple and Cultural Center not too far from me. The real aim is moksha of course, not Saṃsāra, but there is hope, justice, and joy in the journey. It is a truly wonderful belief system.

[alas]

Perhaps it is not a test - it is all an educational experience. (Can we become educated without being tested?)

I have come to really like the idea of reincarnation - the Saṃsāra doctrine of cyclic existence. This gets rid of heaven and hell, allows everyone to experience all of the different lives out there to gain a true understanding of all and connection to all. It is just, it is merciful, it connects everyone - I just like it.

Looking within ourselves, being responsible and self-sufficient - yes, this is a good thing.

Blessings to you on your journey!

Thank you! I am actually a yoga teacher and I’ve been taught and trained in the yoga philosophy. I’m very familiar with the concept of samsara— so glad you brought that up. And I can see how we probably need several lifetimes to figure this thing called life out . Using yoga as a way to break our patterns and change is something I’m passionate about. So grateful for what this path has shown me.

<3 <3 <3

That is really neat! I have been reading the Tao and studying the Bhagavad for some time now. When I feel the need to go to a temple... there is this Hare Krishna Temple and Cultural Center not too far from me. The real aim is moksha of course, not Saṃsāra, but there is hope, justice, and joy in the journey. It is a truly wonderful belief system.

I like everything about these ideas, except karma. Karma says that is we are living a miserable life now, it is because we caused someone else misery once before. I think we just kind of pick what we want to learn. Say, I get curious about what it feels like to starve. Sounds silly. Who would choose that? But it sounds better to me than the idea that we deserve to starve because of what we did in a past life. I combine the reincarnation idea with the NDE idea that we have a life review and we feel every bit of pain we caused others. Then we learn from that and move on with all being forgiven if we learned. Course, if we caused pain and we refuse to learn from it, maybe Karma takes over. But this karma concept can be used to blame those who suffer as if they deserve it. Don’t like that

[Hopebeat]

But this karma concept can be used to blame those who suffer as if they deserve it. Don’t like that

I don’t like that either. Blame doesn’t feel good, does it?

I think of karma in a different way, actually pretty similar to how you said that we choose what we want to learn.

The way I was taught about karma isn’t the “mainstream” way. Karma yoga means that “action is done as a duty (or purpose), without concern for success or failure. ” (~TKV Desikachar). So this is saying that actions are required for us to change and progress, and reach our goals. If we just sit back and expect things to happen for us, they won’t. So the consequence for me not doing my homework is getting a bad grade, I didn’t do anything to get the good grade. Action is required— so I do the work and reap the rewards.


I think we choose what we want to learn in this life. Say “Jane” really wanted to learn compassion in this life. So then, Jane was born into a home with neglectful parents and not all of her needs were met. As an adult, her parents still don’t give her the validation she needs to thrive and feel loved. As soon as she learns to forgive and show compassion towards them, her lesson is learned (they raised Jane the best way they knew how, and she learns to accept this).

This can be thought of as a karmic relationship between jane and her parents. The lessons learned are the karma. Her parents may never fully accept her, or they might change because of her compassion— is doesn’t matter how the parents react because it’s janes lesson to learn. Back to the definition of karma yoga, you’re not concerned with the outcome of the situation. Only that you learned to show love. The

And if Jane doesn’t learn the lesson with her parents, she’ll continue to be put in situations where she’ll need to use compassion. Very different from thinking that Jane was a bad girl or unworthy so she has crappy relationships. Remember, there’s no right or wrong. Theres no real line to cross, so to speak, that leads you to inherit bad karma. No rules to break, and nothing to prove to anyone. Which I guess the only bad karma really is lessons not learned in a sense. Just think of all the lessons we wanted to learn, and how they shape our life situations. This was just one example but there are many ways it could manifest. Sometimes the circumstances go away, sometimes they don’t.

Let me know if that helps, these ancient terms can get so twisted around to seem like they aren’t helpful. What helps me is rememering that these concepts have more history than the people or society that’s using them, not knowing the original concepts behind it makes a difference for sure. But that’s not anyone’s fault really. Anything can be twisted so it’s not the real thing anymore, oh boy do we know the truth of that :p .

[Arcturus]

Here is a question - if you were a G-d, and were trying to raise up other G-ds, what technique would you use? Is it a test of how well you can follow orders or a test of how well you can think for yourself?

Awesome thought. Never considered this question before. I suspect an orthodox Mormon would consider your question heretical, discounting the role of "exact obedience" and compliance...

[Tudor_Princess]

Hello! This is my rant/confession to anyone who needs to hear this.

It’s ok if they don’t understand. I have nothing to prove to them. It’s not ok for me to give my own power away.

I’m done going to church and worshiping God in a way that doesn’t resonate with me. I’m done with the lies that say you need an organization or another person to save you (baptisms for the dead comes to mind). I’m done needing to follow several books and manuals on how to live my life put out by people who want to control me. I’m done being reliant on something outside of myself to progress and grow. Because the truth is, from my experience, is you can only save yourself. You can only grow by looking within. I can only grow by letting it go.

You can save yourself and give yourself the power to leave. I can save myself and give myself the power to leave. Give yourself the power to say no. As long as I’m hiding, they still have the power. I’m done pretending to believe in things I actually don't believe in. I don’t believe God gets to be put in a box like that. The concept of God, for me, is constantly evolving. As that’s beautiful! I’m ready to follow the path my heart is taking me down.

I don’t want to leave my family behind, but if they don’t understand it’s ok. It’s ok if they don’t understand what I’m experiencing— because what I’m experiencing is from a new time, a new way of being. It’s like bringing in a person from 100 years ago and showing him our smart phones. It’s ok if he doesn’t understand, he’s from a different place, a different time, a different mindset. They don’t know what they don’t know.

Most of all, I’m trying to motivate myself to tell others I don’t believe. I’m beginning to accept that they might not ever understand this, and that’s ok. It’s not my job to make them understand or accept and love me. But it is my job to take care of myself. And saving myself from this mormon world is necessary. Realizing this is a step closer to where I need to be.

The highlighted bit is absolutely true, I'm feeling like this right now. I'm seeing a therapist for severe anxiety and we both believe the church has a lot to do with it. He says he sees a lot of people from religions like ours who don't know who they are...I've said this my whole life. I don't know who I am. But I'm now finding out. And I love it. Every word you said I'm resonating with 10000%

[Hopebeat]

The highlighted bit is absolutely true, I'm feeling like this right now. I'm seeing a therapist for severe anxiety and we both believe the church has a lot to do with it. He says he sees a lot of people from religions like ours who don't know who they are...I've said this my whole life. I don't know who I am. But I'm now finding out. And I love it. Every word you said I'm resonating with 10000%

So glad you’re finding value in this! Let me know if you want to chat/talk more about this and connect. <3

[Angel]

Here is a question - if you were a G-d, and were trying to raise up other G-ds, what technique would you use? Is it a test of how well you can follow orders or a test of how well you can think for yourself?

Awesome thought. Never considered this question before. I suspect an orthodox Mormon would consider your question heretical, discounting the role of "exact obedience" and compliance...

When I see all of the different religious organizations out there - and if there is an all-powerful all-knowing G-d directing things down here, and all this diversity was G-d's choice, and G-d loves everyone and is giving everyone what they need - what are we to make of that?

Communities are good enough to support followers through the first few steps, and imperfect enough to then push followers onto their own two feet. We start dependent, are then forced to be independent when we see the problems associated with relying on the arms of flesh, and then become inter-dependent.

The final stage - working together imperfectly, not expecting perfection from any of it, taking responsibility for ourselves and choosing for our self what to believe with the knowledge that no one knows anything... In the end we realize we create our own beliefs, our own reality, our own hopes and goals and dreams, our own definition of heaven and hell... with faith that everyone else is able to find their own personal heaven as well.

[Arcturus]

When I see all of the different religious organizations out there - and if there is an all-powerful all-knowing G-d directing things down here, and all this diversity was G-d's choice, and G-d loves everyone and is giving everyone what they need - what are we to make of that?

Communities are good enough to support followers through the first few steps, and imperfect enough to then push followers onto their own two feet. We start dependent, are then forced to be independent when we see the problems associated with relying on the arms of flesh, and then become inter-dependent.

I think I strongly agree with this idea. But what do you do then with children? Let's say that you and I have become enlightened to the fact that stepping away from Mormonism is good for further development and staying inside could restrain growth. Do kids need an institution in their early life in the first stage of dependence you mention? Or can good parents fill that role completely? Do kids need communities outside the immediate family for spiritual growth or enlightenment (whatever you wanna call it)?

[Angel]

I think I strongly agree with this idea. But what do you do then with children? Let's say that you and I have become enlightened to the fact that stepping away from Mormonism is good for further development and staying inside could restrain growth. Do kids need an institution in their early life in the first stage of dependence you mention? Or can good parents fill that role completely? Do kids need communities outside the immediate family for spiritual growth or enlightenment (whatever you wanna call it)?

I do have kids in the LDS church, but try to teach them to think for themselves and recognize the beauty in other belief systems as well. I take them to cultural events, and also have family from other faith traditions who have introduced them to other belief systems. The best thing to hold onto in life are printiples - decide to be kind, humble, teachable, open to change, good character, good work ethic etc. - put principles first, then family, and keep organizations in their proper place.