Inoculation? Polygamy Taught the Second Week of Seminary

[Culper Jr.]

Tonight at dinner, I asked DD what they talked about this morning in Seminary. She does the early morning kind (we live way outside of the Moridor), and this is her first year. She said they talked about polygamy. Really? This soon? Okay.... She was then saying, "What is it? I didn't really get what she (the teacher) was talking about." I'm sort of at a truce with DW about church stuff. She primarily handles all the church stuff and I stay out of the way for the most part. She is afraid I'll poison DD toward the church. I don't hide my feelings about things, but I don't exactly go out of my way to give my opinion either. I figure my DD is smart enough to figure it out and I just need to make sure she has the space to think freely. DD then said to me, "I'm sure you have lots of opinions about this stuff, Dad." DW tensed up, then said to me, "Go ahead and explain it." I mentioned Joseph's 30-some wives, Emma getting pissed and kicking Fanny out, and how he married other men's wives. DD: "Why did he do that?!!" Me: "That's a good question; maybe you can ask your teacher." I tried to handle it matter-of-factly and not push it too far with Helen Mar and all. DD changed the subject; she appeared half weirded out and half uninterested. Later when DD left the room, DW: "Well that was informative." So not sure how that went, but no one seems mad or too upset, so I guess that's a win.

I mentioned to DW, why are they going for this so early in the year? Why not teach it in the order it happened? She said, "Well, that's what everyone wants to know about, all the weird stuff." I guess they're really trying to inoculate these kids right away.

Anyone else have kids in seminary? Is this standard or is this something just this teacher is doing?

[IT_Veteran]

I’m curious now too. Oldest left the church prior to the start of this year so he’s not in seminary anymore. Middle child isn’t old enough yet.

[Corsair]

This is some industrial strength gaslighting and inoculation going on here. Now the seminary teacher can pull out all of the explanations and apologetics and hope that nobody connects too many dots before they can move on to less dangerous subjects. That's quite a delicate balance they have to maintain.

[Not Buying It]

Inoculate away. The teens who buy it would still believe in the Church if they found out Joseph Smith burned down an orphanage on Christmas Eve wearing a Santa Claus suit. There’s no hope for them. But a good chunk of them will see right through it, know it smells fishy, and eventually find their way out.

This kind of inoculation only works with people who will believe anything. The Church is going to lose the others much faster now. What kid with reasonably intact critical thinking skills will accept Joseph’s sexual shenanigans from a Church that guilts them for so much as thinking about sex and makes them confess anything sexual they actually do to a middle age man alone in a room behind closed doors? Whitewash Joseph’s polygamy all you want, it isn’t going to work with every teen.

[Dravin]

Me: "That's a good question; maybe you can ask your teacher."

"In the mean time the Church released an essay about polygamy in Nauvoo and Kirtland. I'll send you a link."

Not that the essays are sure fire solutions to Mormonism, but the wife can't reasonably object to you providing her a church source about polygamy. On the other hand nothing prevents her from being unreasonable.

[MalcolmVillager]

Yeah my oldest 2 DD's are in seminary, sadly on different tracks so we cant debrief them simultaneously. DW and I are on the ready to pounce on any opportunity to correct and interject truth into their seminary instructions.

It is so weird having my DW mostly kn the same page as me now, yet we are still not rocking the boat too much with the kids, the ward, or family.

[Emower]

Yeah my oldest 2 DD's are in seminary, sadly on different tracks so we cant debrief them simultaneously. DW and I are on the ready to pounce on any opportunity to correct and interject truth into their seminary instructions.

It is so weird having my DW mostly kn the same page as me now, yet we are still not rocking the boat too much with the kids, the ward, or family.

That has to feel weird and great all at the same time. If you are on the same page why not sit the kids down and explain where you are both at?

[Red Ryder]

The primary manual also has some inoculation in it. Get the kids thinking nothing is wrong with it early.

https://www.lds.org/manual/primary-6-ol ... 4?lang=eng

You might also want to explain that Jacob was commanded to have more than one wife. Have the children add the names of Jacob’s wives and sons to the chart when they are mentioned during the lesson. (If you want to add Jacob’s daughter, Dinah, to the chart, create a space for her.)

[profit_seizer]

oh no I missed my homework assignment of deprogramming my kids from this lesson. I keep asking them what they learned and they keep saying basically "oh nothing" or some weird Friend story. sheeeeeeeeeesh. (although my kids have a pretty good moral compass / skeptical bent, maybe they just shrugged it off and said "wow that was some weird BS".) Resolving within myself to Be Better™.

[RS Teacher]

The primary manual also has some inoculation in it. Get the kids thinking nothing is wrong with it early.

https://www.lds.org/manual/primary-6-ol ... 4?lang=eng

You might also want to explain that Jacob was commanded to have more than one wife. Have the children add the names of Jacob’s wives and sons to the chart when they are mentioned during the lesson. (If you want to add Jacob’s daughter, Dinah, to the chart, create a space for her.)

That really crosses the line. I know people hate having been lied to, but at least back when the Church denied JS's polygamy, that denial showed that church leaders actually knew it was wrong and needed to be hidden. Now, instead of denying it or (my preference) disavowing it, they are doubling down and trying to make kids think it's ok. That's creepy and disturbing!

[nibbler]

DD: "Why did he do that?!!" Me: "That's a good question; maybe you can ask your teacher."

I guess the leaders of the church are painted into a corner over this issue but it should come as no surprise that the answer to the question is, "God said so."

Take a look at how the information is presented in Saints: The Standard of Truth.

After receiving the commandment [polygamy], Joseph struggled to overcome his natural aversion to the idea. He could foresee trials coming from plural marriage, and he wanted to turn from it. But the angel urged him to proceed, instructing him to share the revelation only with people whose integrity was unwavering. The angel also charged Joseph to keep it private until the Lord saw fit to make the practice public through His chosen servants.

I wouldn't leave that question for a teacher to answer alone.

Reading between the lines, they're trying to draw a parallel between Joseph Smith and Nephi (which is ironic but I'll stay on topic). Nephi really, really didn't want to chop that guy's head off, but god said so, whatchagonnado? Joseph really, really didn't want to have sex with all those women, but god said so, whatchagonnado?

Sorry, I just have a strong opinion about that explanation. It doesn't read like one of god's commandments. What's god's style? To keep commandments secret or to write them in stone, put them in an ark, and place the ark at the center of the religious community? What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops... or hide it under a bushel, your call.

What's more plausible, that Joseph was a horndog or that an angel told him to do polygamy, he was repulsed, but relented... and also kept it a secret at the angel's bidding?

But until we're willing to give people enough space at church to think, "Maybe polygamy wasn't commanded by god and was a mistake" we're pretty much stuck with, "This is what god wanted."

[Not Buying It]

See, this is one of the reasons why I can’t ever accept the idea that the Church is benign. In my opinion, you do true harm to a person’s moral values when you try to convince them that something so toxically wrong and harmful to women as polygamy was right, in order to preserve the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Right and wrong are no longer tied to their impact on other people - right and wrong are whatever the Church needs them to be to preserve their truth claims.

Everyone should recognize it was wrong of Joseph to go after Fanny Alger behind Emma’s back. It wronged Fanny, it wronged Emma, and the only person who got any benefit out of it was Joseph. People got hurt. But the Church wants to convince young people it was OK, because otherwise they have to try and explain why their Prophet cheated on his wife.

The Church is willing to subvert the moral compass if its young people to preserve their faith in Joseph Smith. That’s pretty despicable in my book.

[MalcolmVillager]

Yeah my oldest 2 DD's are in seminary, sadly on different tracks so we cant debrief them simultaneously. DW and I are on the ready to pounce on any opportunity to correct and interject truth into their seminary instructions.

It is so weird having my DW mostly kn the same page as me now, yet we are still not rocking the boat too much with the kids, the ward, or family.

That has to feel weird and great all at the same time. If you are on the same page why not sit the kids down and explain where you are both at?

Good question. We haven't had the alone time to discuss feelings, options, outcomes, and strategy. We were at Lake Powell this week with friends and the 30 minutes of privacy we got she was ready to just leave it all. We are headed to NYC for 3 days alone (we may hit the BOM while there) and I hope we can make some serious ground on a game plan. The stakes are so high with all in family and heavy LDS community.

[Charlotte]

See, this is one of the reasons why I can’t ever accept the idea that the Church is benign. In my opinion, you do true harm to a person’s moral values when you try to convince them that something so toxically wrong and harmful to women as polygamy was right, in order to preserve the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Right and wrong are no longer tied to their impact on other people - right and wrong are whatever the Church needs them to be to preserve their truth claims.

Everyone should recognize it was wrong of Joseph to go after Fanny Alger behind Emma’s back. It wronged Fanny, it wronged Emma, and the only person who got any benefit out of it was Joseph. People got hurt. But the Church wants to convince young people it was OK, because otherwise they have to try and explain why their Prophet cheated on his wife.

The Church is willing to subvert the moral compass if its young people to preserve their faith in Joseph Smith. That’s pretty despicable in my book.

I agree.

And they won’t crack the door even a tiny bit for different thoughts and conclusions. It’s so heavy handed, so knee-jerk - there’s not a sliver of space for anything but what they say. If they’d give people some breathing room, maybe a fair number would be able to say “that was then, this is now.” Moving on....