Church Punishment

[Just This Guy]

Something occurred to me regarding how the church treats deviants in their ranks.

It occurred to me that all these have something in common:
- Barring from taking sacrament
- Disfellowship
- Baring from giving talks, prayers, holding callings, etc.
- Revoking temple recommend
- withholding authority to perform ordinances
- Excommunication

Now you have the following that different from the ones above:
- Baring from paying tithing.

What does the first group all have in common? They are all social punishments. They are all things that will let the public know that you have sinned and are to be cast out until such time as you are invited back into the fold. Punishment in the church are the modern equivalent of the stock or pillary in the village square or a scarlet letter around your neck.

Not letting you take the sacrament? Everyone in church sees that and passes judgement on you.
Not being allowed to baptize your kid, everyone in the ward will know you have sinned.
Being kept out from your child's weddings, you feel the shame as everyone else attends and you stay outside.

Tithing? No one know what you pay in tithing, outside of the bishopric. Talking about a members contributions is not allowed. Because they can't use it for social pressure, they instead encourage you to keep paying promising "blessings."

So in the end, all the church can do to you is hold your social standing over you. If you are someone who doesn't care about the social standing, or are someone who is out case to begin with, then their punishments have little effect on you. That's all the church has up it's sleeve to keep people in line is social pressure. They literally have nothing else. They may use guilt to try to keep you in line, but when it comes to actual punishments, it is all about the social pressure.

[Corsair]

It's also noted that you are, ironically, still encouraged to pay tithing after an excommunication. While you are technically not allowed to pay tithing, a properly repentant "excommunicant" can still be allowed to continue paying tithing through another person who remains in good standing or even through an unbaptized nonmember. You are supposed to feel remorse from not having the blessings of paying tithing, among other blessings you no longer enjoy. It's a clear sign to ward leadership if you continue to try to access those blessings through continued paying of tithes and offerings.

[Reuben]

Very interesting. I've noticed this before, but hadn't thought all the way through it yet.

Something occurred to me regarding how the church treats deviants in their ranks.

It occurred to me that all these have something in common:
- Barring from taking sacrament
- Disfellowship
- Baring from giving talks, prayers, holding callings, etc.
- Revoking temple recommend
- withholding authority to perform ordinances
- Excommunication

Now you have the following that different from the ones above:
- Baring from paying tithing.

What does the first group all have in common? They are all social punishments. They are all things that will let the public know that you have sinned and are to be cast out until such time as you are invited back into the fold.

And because the group confuses itself with God, it can always give a more mystical explanation than that.

Here's what I mean. Feeling love and belonging is interpreted as having the Spirit. Feeling rejected is interpreted as losing the Spirit. The Spirit is a sign of God's favor. Therefore, the group's judgment of your worth is interpreted as God's judgment.

[Not Buying It]

My 15 year old son said it best: “the Church has about as much power over you as you let it have”. Their punishments only have meaning to the extent you let them mean something to you - with one crucial exception, and that is their power to bar you from family events in the temple, and performing baptisms, and that sort of thing where they hold your family hostage. And they don’t hesitate to swing that hammer most of the time.

[lostinmiddlemormonism]

Doctrinally it is even worse than that. Consider:

- Barring from taking sacrament - The stated purpose of the sacrament is to help us repent of our sins on a weekly basis. You have sinned...so you can't take he sacrament and repent...what????

- Disfellowship - How many times have you heard the analogy that a bundle of sticks in the fire will continue to burn but remove a stick from the fire and it will be extinguished? That is a pretty common analogy at church about why we need to "meet together oft." Yet, you have "sinned" so you should no be fellowshipped with the saints.

- Baring from giving talks, prayers, holding callings, etc. - President Hinkley and others have said that every member of the church needs three things: 1. A friend (taken away in disfellowshipment), a calling (taken away here)...are you seeing a trend?

- Revoking temple recommend - If the purpose of the temple is, in fact, to bring us nearer to God, then surely removing the temple recommend removes the bearer from being "nearer to God" ---hmmmmmm

But tithing...according to LDS.org "One of the blessings of membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the privilege of paying tithing. This privilege is a double blessing...Latter-day Saints believe that the payment of tithing shows gratitude to God and brings both spiritual and temporal blessings (emphasis added).

So based on this the church removes many of the things that are beneficial aids to repentance and bringing an individual closer to God, but is willing to continue to help bless these same individuals with temporal blessings! I am afraid that one is left to conclude one of three things are true. Either 1) The church has this bassackwards, or 2) It is all about the money. or 3) Both of the above. A wise individual should be able to reach their own conclusions in this matter.

-lost

[deacon blues]

My 15 year old son said it best: “the Church has about as much power over you as you let it have”. Their punishments only have meaning to the extent you let them mean something to you - with one crucial exception, and that is their power to bar you from family events in the temple, and performing baptisms, and that sort of thing where they hold your family hostage. And they don’t hesitate to swing that hammer most of the time.

He's a lot smarter than me when I was 15.

[Not Buying It]

My 15 year old son said it best: “the Church has about as much power over you as you let it have”. Their punishments only have meaning to the extent you let them mean something to you - with one crucial exception, and that is their power to bar you from family events in the temple, and performing baptisms, and that sort of thing where they hold your family hostage. And they don’t hesitate to swing that hammer most of the time.

He's a lot smarter than me when I was 15.

Me too!

[Random]

My 15 year old son said it best: “the Church has about as much power over you as you let it have”.

Might be good to have a list of quotes from 15 year old boys. When mine was 15 or 16, he said, in regards to bishop's interviews and church, "My personal life is none of their business."