Oaks Saturday morning talk.

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lostinmiddlemormonism
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Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:08 am

You can view it here:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWzTONghkSk

I went to bed last night quite upset, angry, and frustrated after listening to all the homophobic, anti science, and mysognistic bs he spewed.

Then, this morning I realized it was actually a good talk. He shows the world what the so called church is really all about. It is full of fear, hate, bitterness, control, and obedience to a group of old men. It is talks like this that will eventually drive the church to the brink of extinction. Rather than be upset, I have decided this is a good thing. If the church isn't going to represent Christ, then just keep this up and it will kill itself.

I'll still be happy to piss on his grave though.
Last edited by lostinmiddlemormonism on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Red Ryder » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:14 am

He's the 2018 version of Brigham Young!

Without the hair and wominz of course!
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“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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The Beast
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by The Beast » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:21 am

Bearing the BKP torch as grumpily as ya pleez.
Are you on the square? Are you on the level?

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm

We should all repost his talk on social media with the tag, "what mormons believe."

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Random
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Random » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:12 pm

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm
We should all repost his talk on social media with the tag, "what mormons believe."
:lol:
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
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Hagoth
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:26 pm

I just listened. I'm sick. This bitter old bigot has blood on his hands and right now I wish God actually talked to these apostles so he could rip Oaks a new one. After I listened I read this post from Jim Dabakis and I wept:
dabakis.jpg
dabakis.jpg (114.02 KiB) Viewed 12281 times
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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achilles
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by achilles » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:25 pm

I'm glad that Jim Dabakis made that post. It is really important.

It is so difficult for me to articulate what I am about to say. But I feel it must be said.

E Oaks has been engaging in spiritual abuse on this issue since the early 1980s. He created the Church's game plan for fighting the acceptable of gays, lesbians, the transgendered, and other sexual minorities as real human beings. And when I returned from my mission in Aug 1995, I came back to his Ensign article on the topic that ended up being a major influence in my quest to change my sexual orientation over the next two decades (because I believed that was what the Apostles wanted).

Dallin and the other Brethren never knew the "truth" about us. And yet they moved forward with their own ideas about the "problem" anyway. The 1990s was the heyday of reparative therapy for homosexuality, and the Church threw their eggs in its basket. It took me fifteen years to realize they didn't know what the h311 they were talking about. They were making it up as they went along. I can't describe to you the deep sense of sadness and betrayal I felt when I finally made that realization. I trusted them. I believed they were Christ's representatives to me on this issue. I worked my tail off. And to realize that my life was just an afterthought to them, and that they weren't prophets, seers, and revelators on the topic, it was just devastating. Oaks and Nelson are at the center of the Church's strategy on this.

The most frustrating thing for me about all of this is that Oaks puts me in no-win scenario, and he's totally fine with it. From his white, male, wealthy, powerful, and ecclesiastically privileged position he doesn't even attempt to put himself in my shoes. He can just demand that I change my sexual self to please him, and if I don't, my privation is no skin off his nose. In his talk he basically demanded that anything but heterosexual marriage and child-rearing for me was completely unacceptable. But if I were to attempt that he is literally on record saying "not my daughter". "Don't you dare enter into a marriage with my daughter under false pretenses." So who's daughter am I supposed to marry? Well, he wants one of you chumps to offer one up, because he sure as h311 ain't doing it.

Oaks demands that folks like me live in solitude through our days, with no hope for companionship or a family of our own. Yet the dude couldn't even handle a couple of years of widower-hood himself without remarrying. Apparently, what he thinks is good for the goose ain't good for the gander. Additionally, he has the power to make a space for us if we want to try. Yet he doesn't lift a finger to do what he could to change the culture to make room for us. It is entirely clear that his favorite soap-box--defending heterosexual marriage and families from the scourge of folks like me--is only about him being a hard-@$$ for a few moments and then not thinking twice about how we are supposed to find happiness for ourselves when he's done. I'm pissed. You better believe I'm pissed.

My father was watching conference so I overheard E Oaks'es talk while I was doing my homework. Something very striking occurred to me: this man still believes that gay people choose to be gay. He honestly believes it. And so he also believes the answer is simple: If he pounds the pulpit hard enough, we'll just choose to be ungay. The latest idea he has trotted out is that if we don't do what he wants, we can still inherit Telestial Glory. And he's totally OK with that.

How terrible! Does he even consider the theological implications of that? That God creates whole classes of people to send straight to the Telestial Kindgom, Mormonism's version of eternal damnation? Well, he doesn't have to, because apparently we choose to be gay and can just unchoose anytime we want.

You better believe that he and Russ cooked up the Nov 2015 policy. Its kind of tough love is exactly up his alley. How terrible! He is happy to cast innocent children out of the embrace of Christ. They're just collateral damage in his holy war against the gays.

What a piece of work. I used to look up to him and believe he had my best interests at heart. I can't believe I fell for it. I have the benefit of maturity and perspective to save myself from his abuse. But there are plenty of young LDS men and women who are buying his garbage right this second. Do they have to endure decades of spiritual abuse like I did? Will they choose a gun, or a rope, or pills, or a razor blade instead?
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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jfro18
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by jfro18 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:01 pm

achilles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:25 pm
I'm glad that Jim Dabakis made that post. It is really important.

It is so difficult for me to articulate what I am about to say. But I feel it must be said.
Achilles --

What you wrote is heartbreaking and I can't speak at all to what you've experienced, but I felt awful reading it. I don't think the church even understands the pain they put people through, and I think it's why the Nov 15 policy led to so much anger especially among younger members.

They just do not understand science, they do not understand people, and that leads to the question of how is it possible they don't understand it when they are supposed to speak for God.

I hope the next generation of Mormon leaders move the ball forward, but we know they will ALWAYS be 30-50 years behind society, which is just so sad. I never thought God was a follower, but in the Mormon church, God is nothing but a follower that bows down to political pressure. And that is the most pathetic God I could possibly imagine.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:49 pm

My DW got into a facebook argument with my mom about that talk. DW actually used his talk against himself.

I'm paraphrasing here:

DHO says that you need to get your information from reliable, credible sources. DHO alsosays the homosexuality is a purely a sin, there is no biological componant to it. But he is a layer. What does he know about medicine and human anatomy and development? DOctors estimate that between 1:300 and 1:100 people are born with some form of innersex disorder. Who should I believe? The doctor who has studdied this for years and has publish science that you can review, or the religious leader with no medical training? According to DHO, I should not take him a a credible source.

My mom had no comeback for that one.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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achilles
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by achilles » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:17 pm

The sad thing is that no matter how loud E Oaks gets on this, a statistically stable number of LGBT children of God will continue to be born into Mormon families. It can't be stopped. Even by excommunicating and shunning and denying ordinances.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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wtfluff
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:42 pm

So sorry you were born into a hate-group masquerading as a church Achilles. Most of us will never be able to understand what you've been through, but Oaks' hate is hurtful, even for us.

On a lighter note: I just read a post on "that other" angry message board of a person who was investigating the church, who's relatives encouraged them to watch conference. That person is bisexual, and after listening to Oaks spew his uninformed, hateful rhetoric, that person will be running as far and as fast as they can AWAY from tCOJCOLDS. It made me extremely happy to see that normal folks on the outside can see how awful those old bigots really are.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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achilles
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by achilles » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:49 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:42 pm
So sorry you were born into a hate-group masquerading as a church Achilles. Most of us will never be able to understand what you've been through, but Oaks' hate is hurtful, even for us.

On a lighter note: I just read a post on "that other" angry message board of a person who was investigating the church, who's relatives encouraged them to watch conference. That person is bisexual, and after listening to Oaks spew his uninformed, hateful rhetoric, that person will be running as far and as fast as they can AWAY from tCOJCOLDS. It made me extremely happy to see that normal folks on the outside can see how awful those old bigots really are.
You know, I've run into far more good folks than bad in the Church, who want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, every time E Oaks gives a talk like this, it makes all the "obedient" folks do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify hateful positions, when otherwise they would get to more Christlike conclusions about people who are different from themselves. These folks are thinking "I don't really see why it's such a big deal, but if E Oaks thinks it is I need to think the same..."
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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alas
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by alas » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:19 am

achilles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:49 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:42 pm
So sorry you were born into a hate-group masquerading as a church Achilles. Most of us will never be able to understand what you've been through, but Oaks' hate is hurtful, even for us.

On a lighter note: I just read a post on "that other" angry message board of a person who was investigating the church, who's relatives encouraged them to watch conference. That person is bisexual, and after listening to Oaks spew his uninformed, hateful rhetoric, that person will be running as far and as fast as they can AWAY from tCOJCOLDS. It made me extremely happy to see that normal folks on the outside can see how awful those old bigots really are.
You know, I've run into far more good folks than bad in the Church, who want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, every time E Oaks gives a talk like this, it makes all the "obedient" folks do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify hateful positions, when otherwise they would get to more Christlike conclusions about people who are different from themselves. These folks are thinking "I don't really see why it's such a big deal, but if E Oaks thinks it is I need to think the same..."
Others use it as an excuse to turn their fear of what they don’t understand into hatred and then act in very hateful ways. Or use it to remain bitter and hateful against a husband who left them. Rather than asking themselves what would Jesus do, it is so much easier to see what would Pres Oaks do, and then harden into a hateful position toward their own children, thinking that tough love will cure them of this disease. Others are only too happy to find someone as hateful as they are. It makes hatred masked as righteousness perfectly OK, which is the problem. Because he is who he is, it must be righteous to hate specific groups as long as you pretend you have their best interests at heart. And you never have to ask yourself what is really in their best interest because God told Oaks.

Because of who he is, he makes hatred look righteous.

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Hagoth
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Hagoth » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:49 am

Three days later I'm still waking up with clenched fists and teeth.

How dare Oaks disparage his imagined strawmen for speaking about things in which they are not expert, and then immediately turn around and do exactly that. How dare he accuse those who do actually know and care about the science behind sexual and gender orientation of "priestcraft." That is the absolute summit of hypocrisy.

Even the Grinch had the capacity for his heart to grow, but I fear that shriveled-up little black prune in Oaks' chest is beyond repair. And he sits right next to a heart surgeon who is just turning up the dial on the dehydrator.

We love you Achilles. So glad you're here!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Not Buying It
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:26 am

Let's talk about the one positive of his asinine talk. Mormon youth are now having to choose between believing an arrogant, hateful, out-of-touch old man and their gay friends who they know are great people. President Oaks thinks he is asserting his authority, but I can promise you he has planted little seeds of dissent among some Mormon youth. This talk will push some of the youth away from the Church.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:51 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:26 am
Let's talk about the one positive of his asinine talk. Mormon youth are now having to choose between believing an arrogant, hateful, out-of-touch old man and their gay friends who they know are great people. President Oaks thinks he is asserting his authority, but I can promise you he has planted little seeds of dissent among some Mormon youth. This talk will push some of the youth away from the Church.
Just anecdotal evidence, all my kids brushed off what he said, and one was really upset. The church is now losing the millennials, but until they realize that the reason is the nonsense Oaks spewed is exactly why they are leaving, they will continue to lose all the young people. And those of us who are older, who've had enough of the bigotry.
achilles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:17 pm
The sad thing is that no matter how loud E Oaks gets on this, a statistically stable number of LGBT children of God will continue to be born into Mormon families. It can't be stopped. Even by excommunicating and shunning and denying ordinances.
And that's the rub, along with everyone at this point at least knowing ONE gay individual, will bring about the change. I guess we just need to wait until old, angry, conservative white guys die off.

In the meantime, know I love having you here, achilles, even if I've never met you. I've appreciated your perspective on these issues for some time.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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achilles
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by achilles » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:07 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:49 am
We love you Achilles. So glad you're here!
Awww.... :D
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:32 pm

achilles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:49 pm

You know, I've run into far more good folks than bad in the Church, who want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, every time E Oaks gives a talk like this, it makes all the "obedient" folks do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify hateful positions, when otherwise they would get to more Christlike conclusions about people who are different from themselves. These folks are thinking "I don't really see why it's such a big deal, but if E Oaks thinks it is I need to think the same..."
I have too, which is why this week has been so heartbreaking. I see from family and friends their support of this message, and their support of my bisexual spouse. They love her no matter what. But they praise Oaks for what he said. It's like they can't even comprehend that the two are mutually exclusive.

One of the ladies from my wife's ward, one that's been nothing but loving to her, and to me, as I've stepped away from the church. Every thing I've posted about separating myself from the church publicly because of what they've done, she's just offered messages of love and support. My wife was sick a couple weeks ago so she just showed up with dinner. She exudes the Christlike love that we all strive to emulate.

And then this weekend, she gushed about conference and how much she loved Oaks and Nelson's talks from Saturday morning. My heart just broke, primarily because of what I know about her character. She'd never intentionally hurt anyone. But here she she is, and she doesn't even know that it hurts, let alone why. I hope she saw my FB post on Sunday morning excoriating Oaks and declaring that none of them speak for God, but I think most TBM's have just quit following me on FB. We're still friends there, but they're either not seeing or scrolling right past what I'm saying.

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oliblish
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by oliblish » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:47 pm

Whey he came on the TV and I heard something about PoF, I immediately left the room to avoid saying something that would offend my TBM wife and in-laws.
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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stealthbishop
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Re: Oaks Saturday morning talk.

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:22 am

I'm aware that this talk is already being weaponized is several wards. Whether he realizes it or not he may as well be literally sticking a dagger in the heart of LGBTQ+ Mormon youth. This talk will lead to mental health problems for many of our people.

More bad news: He will be the next prophet and will likely be there for 10 years or more. He has gone 'all in' on this issue so the likelihood of him walking this back is extremely low.

The good news (if there is any): I think after he is gone, I see signs that things will improve in this area.
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Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

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