Rethinking pledges and group recitation

[MerrieMiss]

My kids are in 4H. I had to go to a large regional meeting a while back and was taken by surprise when we were all told to stand and repeat the pledge of allegiance and the 4H pledge. I guess I knew there was a 4H, but our group never did it, I didn’t know it, and I wasn’t sure what to do. A huge feeling of revulsion went through me which was very surprising. It’s not that there was anything wrong with the pledge itself, just the group standing, reciting…I don’t know, it brought back a lot of Mormon feelings and memories. “We are daughters of our heavenly father who loves us, and we love him…” I hated reciting that thing. I hated it even more when I was a TBM adult in YWs. And of course there are other group recitations in Mormonism, which I never really liked all that much either...

Anyway, our 4H group leader recently asked in a poll online whether we were comfortable reciting the pledge of allegiance. I didn’t vote because I honestly don’t know what I think any more about any of this, but I was interested to see the replies by different parents. Some said yes. The only parent who said no outright said she’d prefer to focus on the 4H pledge instead. But another parent’s response was most interesting:

I really like the 4H pledge. It’s more of a mindful thoughtful action thing... so it’s not so abstract. They know what the words mean and that those things add up to being a lovely person. The Pledge of Allegiance... My kids still don’t really get what “countries” really are so it would be just a thing to memorize and it would not make much sense. Actually most of the words would require a lot explanation.

I feel this way about so many things that pertain to children, such as baptism (different topic of course), and it felt good to see someone (who I assume is a never-mormon) say that kids should understand and know what it is we’re asking them to pledge to. I can really get behind this although I’m still a little weirded out by the whole stand up and recite as a group thing. It’s probably just my Mormon showing.

So far our group has recited the 4H pledge (not the pledge of allegiance) without standing and each week the group goes over one line in the pledge and the kids and the adult running the meeting talk about what it means to them. My son volunteered the idea that clearer thinking means maybe we should slow down and think things through before we do them.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the whole thing, but I’m going with it for now. I find I stop and think about all kinds of things anymore because I'm still rebuilding a framework for what I do and what I think. In the end, I doubt the 4H pledge really matters. My kids will probably grow up and talk about their nutty mother who obsessed and deconstructed everything and it was so annoying! It’s really just working through the deprogramming - hopefully they won't have to do that quite as much.

4H pledge:
I pledge my head to clearer thinking,
My heart to greater loyalty,
My hands to larger service,
and my health to better living,
for my club, my community, my country, and my world.

[Linked]

I felt similar feelings of revulsion years ago, pre-faith crisis, when I attended a big meeting for the republican party in Salt Lake County and they read the party platform and said either agree or get out. It felt like the temple. I disagreed with a few of the stances on the party platform and wasn't sure what to do.

I think personal pledges and recitations make more sense than group ones. Something you write yourself and say with yourself. A group pledge written by someone else puts someone else's words in your head and heart. It also adds social pressure to conform to the pledge. If it's a pledge you agree with and people who aren't policing you then there is probably no harm.

And I personally don't like the line about loyalty. I'm seeing less and less good for individuals come from loyalty.

[MerrieMiss]

Yes, I see what you mean about loyalty - I'm not sure what it is loyalty to.

But this is where I have a hard time. The church took things that aren't bad and made them bad. I don't think loyalty is bad. I don't think obedience is bad. But the church took these things to another level and demanded them absolutely from me. I don't know, but I am guessing that 4H doesn't demand obedience or loyalty. If we refused to say the pledge, I don't think they'd kick us out or make us lower level members or use us as bad examples. The church does this. I hope if ever the bishop finds out about my disbelief that my husband remains loyal to me and not the church.

[Raylan Givens]

It has been really interesting over the past few years. The kiddos recite the pledge in my classroom every morning, per state law. A number of students now sit quietly during the pledge and don't say it.

I am sure the take a knee approach is definitely at play here, but I was surprised when I asked one of my students why they don't say it. He told me, "it just feels weird and not real, I don't have anything against the country, but this feels like something you would have to do in North Korea..." I wasn't sure what to say to that.