Doxercising? Other irrelevant words.

[græy]

tl;dr - I can't stand listening to Wendy Nelson speak, and I made my wife cry, again.

Mild doxing and background...

My family and I recently trekked to the Alamodome in San Antonio Texas where we were Blessed (tm)(C) to hear from President Nelson, Elder Bednar, and Elder Ochoa... oh, and their wives. We missed out on a lot of what was actually said becuase we have several small children who missed out on naps due to the weird schedule, and had to keep them in a very confined space for 3+ hours during what should have been dinner time. It really sucked. But here is my summary of the event.

Sister Ochoa: Generic, though sincere testimony, also in spanish.

Elder Ochoa: Generic, though sincere testimony, partly in spanish, and a little longer.

Sister Bednar: Funny anecdotes... her talk was actually pretty enjoyable. I think she said something about we sacrifice thing we could otherwise do on Sunday as a sign of our faith. Maybe I'm getting talks mixed up since I heard a lot of talks this weekend, but I think that was her.

Elder Bednar: We should be "All In." The law of sacrifice is the lesser law to the law of consecration. Definition of consecration. I was happy to to hear him say we should consecrate ourselves to Heavenly Father. He did NOT say to the church. During parts of the talk is almost like he was going to commit us to living the law of consecration right there on the spot.

Sister Nelson: (I really struggled with this, so excuse my sarcasm, these are not exact quotes.) "I'm married to the prophet!" "I didn't get married for a long time and you all judged me, but now I'm married to the prophet!" "He's finally the prophet!" "He wakes up at night with revelation!" "He talks with God constantly!" "My husband is the prophet of God!" "He's 30 years younger!"

President Nelson: Honestly, kids were breaking down big-time and I really didn't hear anything he said. Something about gathering Israel and I think I heard him say "Book of Mormon."

Last night my wife asked me what I got out of the whole thing. She admitted to not really remembering anything because kids are honest and hated being there. I re-capped what I could remember, but when I brought up Wendy Nelson's talk, I hesitated. She probed, I dodged. She asked again, and I finally answered.

If, as she says, her husband talks with God every day, why can't he shed some light on all of the problematic questions that we have? Why doesn't God see that there are literally dozens of us (haha?) suffering with real questions, and I honestly would LOVE an answer either way, even if it means I am somehow wrong?

I talked about the apostles occasionally alluding to their super special relationship with Christ without ever actually stating that they've seen him. Maybe it's too sacred? Fine, I get that. But then at least tell us something meaningful that comes out of those conversations! Instead, all we get is that Home Teaching is now Ministering.

She asked what questions I'd like answered. We talked about race and priesthood, doctrine vs. theory. We talked about polygamy and polyandry.

She mentioned that in early church, they were building Zion and that failed multiple times. Those saints questioned too, but chose to continue with faith. I argued that was different. If you lived the gospel but died outside of Zion you were still saved. Being in Zion is not necessary for salvation. But holding the priesthood for men, and going through the temple for everyone IS required and was denied to a large group of people. So the question I want answered? How did you/we get that SO wrong, and how do we know whether we've got ANYTHING right today? If I base the answer to that question off the historical track record, it doesn't look good for the church.

In the end, she walked away crying. I took a long shower myself, while she listened to MoTab... er... TabCaTS. There was some more unrelated conversation which ended the night on a slightly better note, but this is what we're given to deal with in this life. God's house may be a house of order, but he sure has left the church here on Earth a scrambled mess of confusion.

[Linked]

Thanks for the report! Sounds like a pretty typical meeting.

Sorry to hear it led to some conflict between you and DW. Hopefully those kind of talks get the two of you closer together eventually.

[Emower]

In the end, she walked away crying. I took a long shower myself, while she listened to MoTab... er... TabCaTS. There was some more unrelated conversation which ended the night on a slightly better note, but this is what we're given to deal with in this life. God's house may be a house of order, but he sure has left the church here on Earth a scrambled mess of confusion.

I seem to make my wife cry fairly often these days when we talk about church stuff. I gotta quit talking about it with her. At one time I hoped it would go somewhere productive, but I dont think it ever will. I have to learn how to treat her involvement with the church like a hobby. Its not a hobby, but that would be the best way of interacting with it.

I really cannot understand how people do not see that the church has a rudder that seems totally at the control of capricious people and the wind is entirely of its own making. It blows my mind.

[græy]

Thanks guys. I should probably be putting this stuff in the mixed faith forum. I just always click on support out of habit.

I seem to make my wife cry fairly often these days when we talk about church stuff. I gotta quit talking about it with her. At one time I hoped it would go somewhere productive, but I dont think it ever will. I have to learn how to treat her involvement with the church like a hobby. Its not a hobby, but that would be the best way of interacting with it.

I agree with this. I've tried not bringing anything up with her, but eventually she starts to think that I'm past all the trouble and starts asking, hoping for the TBM me to come roaring back. It's interesting to think of it as a hobby. If only it didn't cost as much as our mortgage...

[Emower]

Thanks guys. I should probably be putting this stuff in the mixed faith forum. I just always click on support out of habit.

I seem to make my wife cry fairly often these days when we talk about church stuff. I gotta quit talking about it with her. At one time I hoped it would go somewhere productive, but I dont think it ever will. I have to learn how to treat her involvement with the church like a hobby. Its not a hobby, but that would be the best way of interacting with it.

I agree with this. I've tried not bringing anything up with her, but eventually she starts to think that I'm past all the trouble and starts asking, hoping for the TBM me to come roaring back. It's interesting to think of it as a hobby. If only it didn't cost as much as our mortgage...

My wife understands that TBM me is gone for good, but if I dont say anything she assumes that I am doing good and moving on. Then when something like Sam Young getting exed happens I get pissed off and she gets whiplash. It is not a good situation and I just need to figure out how to move on and not let stuff drag me back in. Its hard though. Especially when I get daily reminders of why I am angry.

[moksha]

Sister Nelson: "He wakes up at night with revelation!"

Sounds like a step up from waking with an urge to pee. Younger guys usually wake up with an er... you-know-what.

[græy]

Sister Nelson: "He wakes up at night with revelation!"

Sounds like a step up from waking with an urge to pee. Younger guys usually wake up with an er... you-know-what.

LOL

[Corsair]

Sister Nelson: "He wakes up at night with revelation!"

Revelation: Now available without a prescription. Ask your doctor if Revelation is right for you.

I feel for you, Graey. I had too many years as a believer when church was simply babysitting while wearing church clothes in an unhelpful building. But that is a challenge even if you are not invested in a high demand religion. Things will improve as they get older become tolerable humans. I enjoyed my children as surly teenagers far more than when they small and cute, but lacked bowel control.

It is a rare believer that will have an open conversation with you about your concerns. John Larsen or Mormon Expression told a story from his college days when he was doing security in the Mariott Center in the early 1990s. He was still a believer at that point, of course. One of the apostles was speaking at a devotional and opened up for questions from the audience. Some student asked about how the church considered organic evolution and the apostle gave some lame answer. After the meeting, John's supervisor was complaining about the evolution question from that student. "That was an inappropriate question to ask a prophet!", he said.

This is our challenge. Your questions are supposed to be about how you can better serve the Mormon version of Jesus. You should ask how to keep and build faith in the face of assaults from "the world". Your questions should lead to more faith in the institutional church, not just a better understanding of Jesus, unless that image of the Savior supports the organization headed by Russell Nelson.

The questions that are most meaningful to us are simply not welcome by believers. They know how they wish to discuss religion, and it is based on the strong assumption that the LDS church is true and Joseph Smith was the prophet. An open forum that might favor unbelief is not appreciated. I don't truly know the best way forward.

[Emower]

Sister Nelson: "He wakes up at night with revelation!"

Sounds like a step up from waking with an urge to pee. Younger guys usually wake up with an er... you-know-what.

Maybe "revelation" is a euphemism? Maybe that is why she is constantly alluding to him being 30 years younger?

[2bizE]

Question, at these Religious Riots at the big stadiums Nelson nas been holding, are the concessions open? Can you go get a Bratwurst and a soda or something?

[Rob4Hope]

I'm divorced, and last year I mentioned to my Ex-Wife (we were talking about our youngest son and how to handle something) that the Proclamation on the Family was written by a law firm as a legal document allowing the Church to enter the same-sex-marriage fight going on in Hawaii. She looked at me like I was a green martian!

I said I had some really good evidential information backing it up, sorry that it hurt her, but that was my position. She said it was pure revelation. I think I remember asking her: "Why then does it manufacture doctrines that have no historical beginning, and why is it used as primarily a tool to justify denial of blessings to those who, for no fault of their own, have homosexual feelings?"

She cried.

I thought,...what the hell? Glad I'm not married to her (sorry if that sounds harsh,...just is). Can't win some of these arguments. The "faithful approach" to the gospel requires ignorance. And that is something I can't live with and live. So, I had to go my own way.

Its interesting how the simple act of asking questions can be SOOOOOOOO threatening it causes shudders and tears. That's my only point here.

[græy]

Question, at these Religious Riots at the big stadiums Nelson nas been holding, are the concessions open? Can you go get a Bratwurst and a soda or something?

Concessions were all closed. We packed lunchables for the kids and brought PB&J sandwiches for us big people. The security nearly made us throw out the PB&J at the door, but relented when we indicated we were just going to get out of line and eat them. The kids plowed through their meals in minutes and then ate the PB&J themselves, and we still had 3+ hours to go before the thing was scheduled to end.

edit: It would have been awesome to have concessions open for the event. First of all, it would have made the event MUCH more bearable. Second, it would be hilarious watching TBMs justify whether or not to buy food on Sunday given that there were many people there who hadn't eaten since breakfast in order to travel and get there on time to wait for 2+ hours.

[2bizE]

Question, at these Religious Riots at the big stadiums Nelson nas been holding, are the concessions open? Can you go get a Bratwurst and a soda or something?

Concessions were all closed. We packed lunchables for the kids and brought PB&J sandwiches for us big people. The security nearly made us throw out the PB&J at the door, but relented when we indicated we were just going to get out of line and eat them. The kids plowed through their meals in minutes and then ate the PB&J themselves, and we still had 3+ hours to go before the thing was scheduled to end.

edit: It would have been awesome to have concessions open for the event. First of all, it would have made the event MUCH more bearable. Second, it would be hilarious watching TBMs justify whether or not to buy food on Sunday given that there were many people there who hadn't eaten since breakfast in order to travel and get there on time to wait for 2+ hours.

I forgot it was on a Sunday. It is better to starve and suffer than to buy food on Sunday.

[slavereeno]

Graey, thanks for this report.

In the end, she walked away crying.

Sending positive vibes your way, I am familiar with this reaction.

My wife understands that TBM me is gone for good, but if I dont say anything she assumes that I am doing good and moving on. Then when something like Sam Young getting exed happens I get pissed off and she gets whiplash. It is not a good situation and I just need to figure out how to move on and not let stuff drag me back in. Its hard though. Especially when I get daily reminders of why I am angry.

This too sounds familiar. I don't think my wife expects TBM me back, but maybe a me that looks smells and acts like a TBM.