Basketball Fellowshipping

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Linked
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Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Linked » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 am

I got tagged as the ward rep for our men's stake basketball league and attended a kick-off meeting yesterday. I bit my tongue as the leader solemnly declared that, as we all know, the only reason the stake has a basketball league is to bring people to Christ. Then discussions of how different tactics have worked in "fellowshipping". They broke out the commitment pattern as an effective way to get less-actives to more games. Making them sign the roster before the season really helped get them to show up each week. Then the story about that one guy who was less-active, but then his EQP invited him to play basketball. He went. Then a couple weeks later the EQP told him he needed to come to church now. Why? - he asked. Because you're teaching (laughter). He's been active ever since, for many years now! Stake basketball works!

After that story I thought that maybe I shouldn't participate anymore... Manipulative dingbats.

Fortunately they made no stupid rules, waived the need to get bishop permission for non-ward members to play, and we may even get to try the Elam Ending for a few nights.

ETA Elam Ending wikipedia link
Last edited by Linked on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Corsair
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Corsair » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:30 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 am
Then the story about that one guy who was less-active, but then his EQP invited him to play basketball. He went. Then a couple weeks later the EQP told him he needed to come to church now. Why? - he asked. Because you're teaching (laughter). He's been active ever since, for many years now! Stake basketball works!
"The joke is on you, Brother Basketball Fellowship! Making two points for the team obligates you to make points for the church! Making points for Jesus remains optional."

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by MalcolmVillager » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:21 pm

I play ball 3 times a week at an LDS building across town. If/when I stop going to Sunday meetings, I suppose I will keep going M/W/F mornings with the Elders of Israel!

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Linked
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Linked » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:50 pm

MalcolmVillager wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:21 pm
I play ball 3 times a week at an LDS building across town. If/when I stop going to Sunday meetings, I suppose I will keep going M/W/F mornings with the Elders of Israel!
Me too! It's one thing I really believe the church does right. Have basketball hoops in them and begrudgingly let us old men play regularly. You don't even have to present a temple recommend to get in. On a serious note, morning basketball is one of the only things in life that I get truly excited about, it is a life saver.
Corsair wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:30 am
Linked wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 am
Then the story about that one guy who was less-active, but then his EQP invited him to play basketball. He went. Then a couple weeks later the EQP told him he needed to come to church now. Why? - he asked. Because you're teaching (laughter). He's been active ever since, for many years now! Stake basketball works!
"The joke is on you, Brother Basketball Fellowship! Making two points for the team obligates you to make points for the church! Making points for Jesus remains optional."
Haha, totally. It made me feel icky being there. It was like going back to those awful ward council meetings. "How can we manipulate more people that don't want to come into wanting to come? Did anyone have a death in the family?"
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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wtfluff
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by wtfluff » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm

Church Ball?

Another one of those competitive things that mormons take too seriously, and also try to out-mormon each other?

Yup. That, and one more of those mormon things where I just don't fit in. My cube-ish shaped basketball (head?) just doesn't fit through that round hoop.

I guess I could just go spectate and watch the fights. Nah, I don't think so...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Corsair
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Corsair » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:33 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:50 pm
Haha, totally. It made me feel icky being there. It was like going back to those awful ward council meetings. "How can we manipulate more people that don't want to come into wanting to come? Did anyone have a death in the family?"
"Could we we put the name of their loved on on the temple role so that they pass sooner? Can we somehow cause their car to break down so they have to call their assigned ministers? Is there any chance they could fired from their job and need to come in for financial assistance? Is there any way to make their life intolerable so they have to crawl back to our good graces?"

OK, this is quite a bit over the top. But notice that what they cannot consider:

"What is it about church that makes them want to stay away? Could we make it shorter? Even shorter than two hours? Could we add coffee and donuts? Could we add in a class that honestly deals with really tough subjects? Could we honestly and humbly acknowledge where the church simply fails for them? Could we have a class called 'foyer social' for the second hour? Could we honestly help them find the right church, faith group, or social group for them?

"Could it possibly be that they seriously have their lives in such good order that they don't need the LDS church? If so, could they headline a fireside where they tell us what they are doing right so we can consider doing that same thing?"

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Linked
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Linked » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:56 pm

Corsair wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:33 pm
"Could we we put the name of their loved on on the temple role so that they pass sooner? Can we somehow cause their car to break down so they have to call their assigned ministers? Is there any chance they could fired from their job and need to come in for financial assistance? Is there any way to make their life intolerable so they have to crawl back to our good graces?"

OK, this is quite a bit over the top. But notice that what they cannot consider:

"What is it about church that makes them want to stay away? Could we make it shorter? Even shorter than two hours? Could we add coffee and donuts? Could we add in a class that honestly deals with really tough subjects? Could we honestly and humbly acknowledge where the church simply fails for them? Could we have a class called 'foyer social' for the second hour? Could we honestly help them find the right church, faith group, or social group for them?

"Could it possibly be that they seriously have their lives in such good order that they don't need the LDS church? If so, could they headline a fireside where they tell us what they are doing right so we can consider doing that same thing?"


You sound like Ronald Poelman, pre-edits:
Ronald Poelman wrote:As individually and collectively we increase our knowledge, acceptance and application of gospel principles, we become less dependent on Church programs. Our lives become gospel centered.
Good points on the problem always being in the people not attending and not in the product the church peddles. The size of that blind spot in TBMs is amazing. People who would otherwise spot a scam a mile away brush over scammy practices from the church. I did it for a long time. The funny thing is that when pressed the TBM will readily acknowledge that the church isn't perfect, and yet they refuse to consider which specific things might not be perfect. There is this group understanding that the church is both perfect and imperfect, and where to use either. Using them improperly is the sure sign of the outsider.

And if you created the 'foyer social' as an official class it would ruin it.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:23 pm

It's better to have wrestled...and lost...than to have played basketball.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by IT_Veteran » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:35 pm

I've been out of Utah so long I didn't even know anybody still did church ball. All I heard in the local stakes was that they cancelled it XX years ago because it was too competitive and people were mean to each other and the referees.

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Linked
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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by Linked » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:27 am

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:23 pm
It's better to have wrestled...and lost...than to have played basketball.
Why not both?
IT_Veteran wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:35 pm
I've been out of Utah so long I didn't even know anybody still did church ball. All I heard in the local stakes was that they cancelled it XX years ago because it was too competitive and people were mean to each other and the referees.
It seems to be less and less popular, but it is limping along in the heart of the Morcor. In my stake in southern Salt Lake County we have a team for most wards. My buddy in Utah County told me that it is still quite popular there. We did away with referees last year and went with call your own fouls. It was surprising how much less fighting there was. I think the referees act as a flash point.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Basketball Fellowshipping

Post by IT_Veteran » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Linked wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:27 am
lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:23 pm
It's better to have wrestled...and lost...than to have played basketball.
Why not both?
IT_Veteran wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:35 pm
I've been out of Utah so long I didn't even know anybody still did church ball. All I heard in the local stakes was that they cancelled it XX years ago because it was too competitive and people were mean to each other and the referees.
It seems to be less and less popular, but it is limping along in the heart of the Morcor. In my stake in southern Salt Lake County we have a team for most wards. My buddy in Utah County told me that it is still quite popular there. We did away with referees last year and went with call your own fouls. It was surprising how much less fighting there was. I think the referees act as a flash point.
I think the last time I played church ball was as an inactive 17 year old (before I was reactivated and bought into the whole thing again) and I got in trouble for cursing at the referees.

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