Prop 2 turnabout

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Hagoth
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Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 am

After all of the church's machinations to make Prop 2 fail, their lobbing to "follow the prophet" to keep pot out of the hands of sick people, suddenly they're trying to take credit for it? Yesterday the news was full of church statements about how it's showing love and compassion by embracing medical marijuana. An official announcement yesterday said, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints welcomed the opportunity to participate in a broad community effort to alleviate pain and suffering." WT holy F.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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wtfluff
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by wtfluff » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:01 am

Gaslighting. Double-Speak. Plausible Deniability.

Would you really expect anything different from the COJCOLDS Corporation™?


It would be nice if "the people" could actually do anything about it, but for now, the theocracy still rules. I hope I live to see the day when they no longer have power, or maybe I can hope to not care at some point?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Arcturus
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Arcturus » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:26 am

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:01 am
It would be nice if "the people" could actually do anything about it, but for now, the theocracy still rules. I hope I live to see the day when they no longer have power, or maybe I can hope to not care at some point?
My prediction: in 15-20 years the church will no longer dominate Utah politics. But they'll still be there, annoying/pestering politicians and tossing their $$$ around.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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Red Ryder
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:08 am

Can someone give a summary for us non Utah supporters of Prop 2?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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alas
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by alas » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:14 pm

Well, there are a few things written in to this compromise that sabatoge it. It uses words like prescription, that at attic ally make it illegal. Doctors cannot write a prescription for any form of MJ. It requires a pharmacist to work at the dispensary, which will cause hm to lose his license. It is like they carefully worded it so it sounds like it might work but until the feds change the designation on MJ, this bill is cannot work——and they knew all that while they wrote up this “compromise”. The only people who got compromised are the voters of Utah.

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Linked
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Linked » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:30 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:08 am
Can someone give a summary for us non Utah supporters of Prop 2?
Prop 2 was a ballot initiative in Utah that passed in November contrary to the church's opposition. It made medical marijuana legal in Utah. There were a few loopholes that people were concerned would allow legal recreational use, God forbid and think of the children. The church/state used these concerns as an excuse to write their own medical marijuana bill which will replace Prop 2. I've heard good and bad about the original proposition and the new bill.

The really frustrating thing is just that the people spoke, and were immediately patted on the head while the grown ups in the legislature (and those directing them in the church) told the people what they actually wanted.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Arcturus
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Arcturus » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:12 pm

alas wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:14 pm
Well, there are a few things written in to this compromise that sabatoge it. It uses words like prescription, that at attic ally make it illegal. Doctors cannot write a prescription for any form of MJ. It requires a pharmacist to work at the dispensary, which will cause hm to lose his license. It is like they carefully worded it so it sounds like it might work but until the feds change the designation on MJ, this bill is cannot work——and they knew all that while they wrote up this “compromise”. The only people who got compromised are the voters of Utah.
If this is true, this is terrible. Alas - do you have any media cites with critique along these lines?
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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Hagoth
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:33 pm

A state legislator on the news last night was rolling his eyes at the whole thing and pointing out that it almost doesn't matter what the current law says. This thing will be a constant battle with all kinds of nonsensical direction changes and endless opposition, just like Utah's history with liquor laws. The wacky thing about it is that the church is fighting it behind the scenes and dogwhistling to people who appose it, while in public they're taking credit for any elements of it that look compassionate to people who support it.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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alas
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by alas » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:45 pm

Arcturus wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:12 pm
alas wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:14 pm
Well, there are a few things written in to this compromise that sabatoge it. It uses words like prescription, that at attic ally make it illegal. Doctors cannot write a prescription for any form of MJ. It requires a pharmacist to work at the dispensary, which will cause hm to lose his license. It is like they carefully worded it so it sounds like it might work but until the feds change the designation on MJ, this bill is cannot work——and they knew all that while they wrote up this “compromise”. The only people who got compromised are the voters of Utah.
If this is true, this is terrible. Alas - do you have any media cites with critique along these lines?
I can't do links as I do not have a computer and can't do it from an iPad.

But read the actual bill, it has those words and check with any doctor about the rules around prescriptions. It is illegal for a doctor to prescribe any drug classified as whatever the class is called. (Having a senior moment) I may have seen a discussion from Ut senator Dabakis or he may have information on it on his web page.

My friend who is a Utah resident wrote her representative about the word "prescriptions" and he responded that "prescriptions" actually means "recommendations", "so there is no problem." But if the bill meant "recommendations" why does it state "prescriptions". The difference is that a prescription says how to take it and gives an amount, while a recommendation is just that, a recommendation from your doctor that it might help. Like he might recommend vitamin supplements or exercise. He can recommend anything that is not a prescription drug, but can only prescribe prescription drugs. All other states that have medical MJ laws use the word "recommendation" and the Supreme Court says that is legal, because the doctor is not prescribing it.

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wtfluff
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Re: Prop 2 turnabout

Post by wtfluff » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:36 pm

Here's what's really "funny" (not) for those of you outside Utah: There have been previous bills for medical MJ in Utah. The legislature pretty much instantly shot them all down, so... The people got a ballot initiative and voted for medical MJ. As soon as the Corporation that runs Utah (COJCOLDS) figured out that the ballot initiative was likely to pass, the immediately "organized" a special session to push through their new, poison-pill initiative. They literally had multiple opportunities to pass something in the legislature, and the church made sure nothing passed.

And the old bigots who run the state wonder why people who no longer fall victim to their false pretenses want their fake church "Burned Down"...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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