Giving Machines = reverse ATM

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mufflerman
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Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by mufflerman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:57 am

I'm thinking someone can help me out with this. I'm seeing articles pop up with these giving machines the church is placing around. Is this not brilliant marketing..?..easy money grab playing on emotion - business as usual for the church. I have to imagine that somewhere, just like on the donation slips, there is that little disclaimer that states you can give to whatever line item you want, but we know best and will use it where ever the hell we please. So, when Jack and Jill decide they want to purchase a goat through the machine, how does anyone know where the money is really going?

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DPRoberts
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by DPRoberts » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:22 pm

The corporation disguised as a church likes the PR from claimed charitable giving, but hates to use tithing funds (if they ever do that). So the game is to get members and non-members to contribute to NOT tithing funds that TSCC will redistribute and take credit for.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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glass shelf
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by glass shelf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:49 pm

Our country really needs better laws to track this stuff. If you can collect money through a vending machine for charity, then you should be required to show it's for charity.

My kids' PTO has 100x the transparency of the LDS church. Last night we were talking about an issue with someone who hasn't been as forthcoming with financial info as they should be. Guess what happened? Voted out and we came up with new safeguards for the new people taking over. We hire an outside accountant each year to go over the books and make sure everything's good. Seems like a "non-profit" that takes in millions and millions of dollars a year should have more stringent rules for their books.

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Corsair
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Corsair » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:40 am

I live in Gilbert, AZ and our stake excitedly announced that the Giving Machine was now operational in town. I have to agree with others that a full accounting from these donations is just not going to come up. Part of the pitch is that some of these donations will go to some good local charities:
Jill Adair, Church News contributor wrote: Donations to the giving machine will benefit global as well as local nonprofit organizations, including four in Arizona—A New Leaf, Helen’s Hope Chest, St. Mary’s Food Bank Alliance, and United Food Bank. The machines will be available throughout the Christmas season.
That's nice, but I would simply prefer to donate directly to A New Leaf, Helen’s Hope Chest, St. Mary’s Food Bank Alliance, and United Food Bank rather than funnel that money through an unaccountable church.

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Kishkumen
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Kishkumen » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:55 am

Of course, I know we'll never get answers to the following questions, but here are my thoughts on the matter
  • How much do these giving machines cost to purchase, deliver and maintain?
  • Are the purchase, delivery and maintenance costs covered by the church or does each purchased 'gift' have a fee taken out to cover the machine overhead costs?
  • How do we know how much it costs to provide said charitable item/service?
I admit this is a cute PR stunt with well-intended results. The problem is it's the same as giving money to the government for charity - it costs the government $5 to deliver $1 of aid.

You might get a warm fuzzy for purchase a charitable item from the giving machines - but the ones benefiting are yourself for falsely thinking you made a noticeable difference and the corp for added money in their coffers. The actually needy benefit the least in this transaction.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:26 am

I had no idea this existed. Then last night Sister Ryder mentioned she had donated chickens??

I joked that it was cruel to leave chickens in the vending machine like that.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Hagoth » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:20 pm

Um, doesn't the church recognize that they are supposed to be the giving machine, and that they have convinced everyone that's what tithing and Fast Offerings are for.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Thoughtful
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:16 pm

Ive read the church doesn't manage the donations, only provided the machines. Another charity is in charge of the management.

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Raylan Givens
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Raylan Givens » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 pm

Thoughtful, I read that as well. Hopefully, it is a good group

The Church, with it's long arm, has many, many layers of oversight in place. No "Widows Mite" goes uncounted, They know where it goes...

I just don't know where it goes...
"Ah, you know, I think you use the Bible to do whatever the hell you like" - Raylan Givens

Cnsl1
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:24 am

I think y'all are trying to look for warts with these giving machines. I fail to see this as a bad thing. Sure, people can give directly to these charities and causes, but people don't always do that. People are lazy and people are busy. I think this is a fantastic idea to make giving easier. Why shouldn't we be applauding the church for their role in this?

Give credit where credit is due, or please provide a better explanation of why this is pernicious.

Reuben
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Reuben » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:12 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:24 am
I think y'all are trying to look for warts with these giving machines. I fail to see this as a bad thing. Sure, people can give directly to these charities and causes, but people don't always do that. People are lazy and people are busy. I think this is a fantastic idea to make giving easier. Why shouldn't we be applauding the church for their role in this?

Give credit where credit is due, or please provide a better explanation of why this is pernicious.
Agreed. The confirmation bias is strong on this thread.
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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Hagoth
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Hagoth » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:43 am

Reuben wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:12 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:24 am
I think y'all are trying to look for warts with these giving machines. I fail to see this as a bad thing. Sure, people can give directly to these charities and causes, but people don't always do that. People are lazy and people are busy. I think this is a fantastic idea to make giving easier. Why shouldn't we be applauding the church for their role in this?

Give credit where credit is due, or please provide a better explanation of why this is pernicious.
Agreed. The confirmation bias is strong on this thread.
I agree too. I didn't realize that these machines do not fall under the fine print at the bottom of the tithing slip (I.e. new ways to give more to the church). How about another change to the tithing slips to add "just use the machines" on the humanitarian aid line.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

mufflerman
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by mufflerman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:58 am

Thank you for the info Thoughtful,
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:16 pm
Ive read the church doesn't manage the donations, only provided the machines. Another charity is in charge of the management.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by IT_Veteran » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:55 am

mufflerman wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:58 am
Thank you for the info Thoughtful,
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:16 pm
Ive read the church doesn't manage the donations, only provided the machines. Another charity is in charge of the management.
I’ve also read that the church is covering the cost of the machines and maintenance on them. This seems to be a genuine attempt by them to get donations directly to the people that need them.

My biggest issue with it (and one I’m generally willing to overlook) is that they’ve had to stamp their name and hashtag campaign all over it.

ETA: I wouldn’t be surprised in the least of the money they’re spending on the machines is coming from the PR budget instead of the humanitarian budget.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by DPRoberts » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:45 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:24 am
I think y'all are trying to look for warts with these giving machines. I fail to see this as a bad thing. Sure, people can give directly to these charities and causes, but people don't always do that. People are lazy and people are busy. I think this is a fantastic idea to make giving easier. Why shouldn't we be applauding the church for their role in this?

Give credit where credit is due, or please provide a better explanation of why this is pernicious.
I wasn't saying this is pernicious. I am just skeptical of the motives of LDS Inc. They like to throw around numbers for their charitable giving that sound big on the surface, but when compared to their estimated annual income may less than many other corporations that don't claim to be a "church". And when members volunteer to be aid workers the boys in Salt Lake send the yellow tee shirts to trumpet their good works to whoever might see them. Its always about the PR and not, let not thy right hand know what the left hand doeth (I probably massacred that paraphrase).

I am happy to give them credit for doing some good. But I have to admit being jaded when it comes to attributing motives.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

Reuben
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Reuben » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:09 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:45 pm
I am happy to give them credit for doing some good. But I have to admit being jaded when it comes to attributing motives.
Of course. Me too. To me, the church is like a narcissistic ex. For any collective action, whatever the original motives are, image management becomes one of them.
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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wtfluff
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by wtfluff » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:08 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:24 am
I think y'all are trying to look for warts with these giving machines. I fail to see this as a bad thing. Sure, people can give directly to these charities and causes, but people don't always do that. People are lazy and people are busy. I think this is a fantastic idea to make giving easier. Why shouldn't we be applauding the church for their role in this?

Give credit where credit is due, or please provide a better explanation of why this is pernicious.
I'll reserve judgement until I see some financial transparency: Like actual proof that they are funneling money to a legitimate charity that isn't part of the LDS-Inc. conglomerate.

Waiting... Waiting...

(I suspect that this will be like all the other promises that LDS-Inc. makes: I'll find out when I die.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Hagoth
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Hagoth » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:53 am

Any speculations about whether the church gets feedback about how much is contributed via the machines so they can add it to their humanitarian aid stats?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Red Ryder
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:31 am

Looks like the cost of two chickens cleared my bank. Online banking says I paid "Bonniville Communications".
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: Giving Machines = reverse ATM

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:51 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:31 am
Looks like the cost of two chickens cleared my bank. Online banking says I paid "Bonniville Communications".
which is interesting since that is a "for profit" arm of the church.

-lost

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