Advice to help a friend

[MerrieMiss]

Hi Nommies, I have a question that I should probably post in misc., but I’m putting here for more visibility.

I found out this morning that this weekend a (non-mormon) woman I know discovered her husband is cheating on her and was planning to leave the family for the other woman. I consider her a friend, but I was surprised she considers me close enough to share this. She is probably the kindest, most selfless, giving person I know. Her child doesn't know yet, but senses things are off.

Anyway, if this isn’t too bold to ask, I know there are those of you who have experienced this either yourselves or in your families, or maybe you just have good ideas and advice, and I’m wondering what is the best support I can give her? It’s an awful thing to discover, and there’s no good time for it, but right before the holidays has to be terrible for both her and her kid. I’ve already expressed my sympathy and love. I’ll be seeing her later. Any advice or input?

[IT_Veteran]

Hi Nommies, I have a question that I should probably post in misc., but I’m putting here for more visibility.

I found out this morning that this weekend a (non-mormon) woman I know discovered her husband is cheating on her and was planning to leave the family for the other woman. I consider her a friend, but I was surprised she considers me close enough to share this. She is probably the kindest, most selfless, giving person I know. Her child doesn't know yet, but senses things are off.

Anyway, if this isn’t too bold to ask, I know there are those of you who have experienced this either yourselves or in your families, or maybe you just have good ideas and advice, and I’m wondering what is the best support I can give her? It’s an awful thing to discover, and there’s no good time for it, but right before the holidays has to be terrible for both her and her kid. I’ve already expressed my sympathy and love. I’ll be seeing her later. Any advice or input?

Every article I've read on the topic (I have no personal experience) says to ask her how you can support. Don't offer platitudes (better off without him, at least you found out now, etc). Just genuine sympathy and an action or two you're willing to take. "Can I take you to dinner and we can talk" is more meaningful then telling her "let me know if you need anything!"

[RubinHighlander]

For over a decade I dealt with a spouse who was a cheater. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I would have ended it after the first one. But that not being possible, I was doing the best I could with where I was in life. Unfortunately being a TBM during those years didn't help; it just added to my guilt and determination to keep the family together and endure the pain. My X had three different affairs and after the last one I was still determined to forgive 70x7 and keep the family together. But she filed for divorce and had her name removed from the church. I was actually quite relieved.

I blamed myself for her affairs, thinking myself so flawed somehow that I could not make her happy. Later I learned she was narcissistic and me forgiving her and taking her back the first two times was just enabling her. Many things about my personality and how I handled things in the marriage were unhealthy for both of us. My advice for your friend is to find out if her husband is a narcissist. Have her read up on it and try to objectively determine if he has those attributes. If he does have all the traits then I'd advise her to get a good attorney and get it over with. If he is a narcissist he will blame her, justify his actions and it's a no win situation; she should just get distance/separation as soon as possible and get financial support. I'd advise her to keep the church out of it, other than temporal and emotional support, it just muddies the water. I would take no advice from any church leadership and try to keep them out of it. This is about protecting her and her children at this point.

I would not make any concessions for that man, I'd do everything I could to protect her position in the home and for the children. He will likely try to poison the children against her; she should just increase the love for them on her end and try not to say negative things about the dad; that's pretty text book.

Bottom line is, if he's made statements to say he's leaving for another women, there's nothing she'll be able to say or do to convince him otherwise to fix him. She'll be tempted to try, out of desperation; believe me, I know exactly how that feel! It's one thing to sneak around and get caught, so it's a telling sign to me if he's actually told her he's leaving her and the family for this other woman. This seems pretty final to me and I would not trust him.

It really helps to keep emotions out of the courtroom, there's no justice there that will punish a cheating spouse for their adultery. The court is just there to protect the kids, get the assets split and the benefits for the children arranged in child support and alimony. This is a tough one, but from experience I can tell you there's no return on investment for how much you can spend on attorneys fees, vs what you think you'll get in trying to exact some consequences on the guilty party, it just doesn't work that way. Unless there are hard criminal laws broken, like abuse or drugs. Minimize the attorney fees and rip the bandaid off asap. Tell her to harden up her heart, as difficult as that is, get as unemotional as possible and get to work to protect her kids and the finances. She should immediately spin up her own bank account, get copies of all the important documents, like birth certificates, tax returns, records of retirement accounts, etc. He should move out of the house if possible as soon as possible, may even take a restraining order. If she lets him play on her emotions, he'll just take advantage of her and she'll lose ground.

Those are the hard facts of situations like this at least from my perspective and experience. I spent so much money, time and energy fighting fruitless battles over the years with my X; custody battles, deposing her paramours, child support disputes, none of it proved to help much other than to drain my savings and retirement funds. Child support is calculated by the state based on both incomes. Alimony is the one that can be fought for, based on years married and income disparity. Other assets like the home can be split down the middle, hopefully enough equity to pay off debts and provide some money to start a new life with.

Final note - time heals the wounds and it will work sooner than later the faster you can settle the separation and move on and let go of the bitterness. At my youngest son's graduation a couple of years ago I actually attended his party at my X's home out of state. The weirdness and bitterness was gone and she actually sincerely apologized for all the $hit she had put me through all those years. The last child support check was paid and the closure was a sweet moment and milestone in my life. Don't make those potential milestones millstones, hanging around your neck!

[Red Ryder]

What he said.

[Reuben]

I found out this morning that this weekend a (non-mormon) woman I know discovered her husband is cheating on her and was planning to leave the family for the other woman. I consider her a friend, but I was surprised she considers me close enough to share this.

Are you her closest friend? Safest? Sometimes people will open up when they normally wouldn't just out of desperation.

This makes me wonder what kind of social support she has.

[2bizE]

I thought you were going to ask us to live the law of polygamy and for one of us to take her in as a spiritual wife. In that case I’ll have to think about it ...

[glass shelf]

Having watched a couple of my friends go through divorces in the past year, my advice would be that she talks to an attorney to see what her rights are and what she should do to protect them. That doesn't mean that she has to get a divorce--it just means that she knows what she should do if things are headed that way. Both of my friends said they waited way too long to take this step, and they wished they'd done it sooner because it gave them peace of mind.

[Lithium Sunset]

Not sure I can say anything better than Ruben...

I have a three day trial next month. I have no choice but to go thousands of dollars in debt- I have spent over $30,000 so far and haven’t reached court yet... I was a stay at home mom... I didn’t have money.. no one would give me a loan so I have a maxed out credit card and my mother had to take out a home equity loan for me... awful. But again, no choice. He thinks I deserve nothing for leaving him even though he was cheating. He wanted us both (and constant prostitutes/human trafficking victims. He once went as far as clearing the bank account, taking my keys, etc. I couldn’t move out of the bedroom. Talk about fear when I snuck down to the bank a year later so I could have money to file and make my escape. You have no idea. I was told not to leave the house by an officer. Your friend could lose it if she does. I hate to say this but Ruben is right, there is no point in emotions or kindness unless you want to lose, there is no safety to be had either. Unless she is lucky and he punches she... then maybe she can get help. There is no protection out there for emotional abuse or isolation, or cheating. I spent many nights crying wondering why the police couldn’t help me when I called them out after he broke the door in half or why they didnt even speak with him after he plowed into me with the door a second time. Anyway, I did file a protective order and that got him out- like Ruben said... it was awful. They didnt care what he did to me in the home. Even my son had to run away from him once. Before he moved out he spent two months sexually harassing me, trying to ruin my case. The courts didnt care that he was having an affair and all he had done to me- they said he would continue to live in the house for six more months when our first trial was to be last June.

I dont care if I’m rambling. Once I get going I vomit out the trauma.

She needs to get him out if she can. She needs money for the divorce or she is at his mercy. I have to fight or I’ll have nothing. She will have to accept that her life will change and she will need lots of support, professional too if she can afford it. And she has to know that it’s worth whatever the cost to leave that #$%hole. And she needs to get tested- twice, six months part. She may have to share the kids with him but guess what- THEY ONLY NEED ONE GOOD PARENT. Tell her to hold on the that like air to breath. They will be okay and they will learn. She doesn’t need to bad mouth him becuase he will show himself. It’s okay if she isn’t perfect. She doesn’t have to shut down her feelings to them, but watch what she says- just do the best you can with the hand your dealt. Money isn’t everything. Everything is hard at first. Build your life back up and never give up. There are people who have it worse. She needs to know she is not alone! She needs to be able to have someone to text at anytime of day when she feels like she is about to break. And if she’s like me- and her heart does break- guess what, you come back together and you will be okay even if it doesn’t feel like it at the moment. I literally felt my heart break and I am stronger for it. I know I will endure if it happens again and she can endure too if she can find support. If books are her thing then go to the library and check out a bunch of books.

It’s hell but the distance helps and if you have the right support you learn to put boundaries in place. Never take the boundaries down. He told me my hair looked nice after a basketball game Saturday, I got dressed up for a party. The next day I smile at him on the way out the door from another basketball game. I promised myself I would never give him the gift of my smile again... I was repaid with him posting pictures of the two of them on our family (MY) Shutterfly account.
If he is a monster and has her wrapped around his finger- leaving him is going to feel like coming off of drugs.. again, you can’t imagine, but when it’s over the fog clears and you realize how horrible a situation you were in. Just keep telling her she is a good person. Get her dressed up and out to dinner etc once and a while. Tell her she is wonderful and that she will be okay. Don’t sugar coat the situation. She is going to need a lawyer, like it or not. Maybe mediation can avoid court. I couldn’t say. Oh and save everything. Tell her to Document like her life depends on it. She needs to go into fierce survival mode. Protect herself and protect the kids as best she can. She can only do so much and she needs to put the mask (think airplane) on herself before she can put one on them.

I was thinking today how he was cheating while he and my sons were being baptized into the church... some people are monsters. When I am in a dark place I indulge the saying that hell isn’t a place, it’s people.

Okay, I need to stop. I’m sorry.... I hope you can pick through that and find something helpful....

[Anon70]

No advice but glad she found a friend in you.

Okay, I need to stop. I’m sorry.... I hope you can pick through that and find something helpful....

Hugs to you LS

[MoPag]

Amen to everything LithiumSunset and RubinHighlander said. (and hugs to you both)

MM, you can go with her to talk to a lawyer. Be there for moral support and take notes for her because it's hard to remember it all. It would be a good idea for her to understand the laws as they apply to the state you guys are in. Most lawyers will do this for free or for a small fee. Tell her it doesn't mean she has to get a divorce, but she needs all the info she can to make an informed decision.

She could also use a good counselor or therapist. Mine really helped me understand how my XH's mind worked and she helped me learn how to set boundaries and deal with a toxic person.

Right now she is super vulnerable and absolutely shattered. Just be there for her. She is probably going to try and blame herself. It took me a long time to realize I couldn't control my XH, and that the things he did he chose to do. Its a journey to get to that point. I had everyone telling me it wasn't my fault (except my bishop ) but it took me a long time before I really believed it. You can help her along the journey by gently reminding her that she is a good person who would never risk destroying her family. She will get there eventually.

When she is ready, there is a FB group called Prosperity After Divorce for Women. She can join and ask all the questions she wants. There are thousands of ladies there ready to help a fellow sister out.

[MerrieMiss]

Thank you to everyone for all your responses. She is not a close friend so I am a little surprised she reached out. I listened mostly, and did offer to take her daughter if she needs time to do anything as well as proposed the idea of a girls night out which she thought sounded lovely. She told me his reasons for his behavior and I did tell her that even if what he says is true and she has faults, it NOT an excuse for his behavior - this is not her fault, it was his decision. I am a little concerned that she does not want to see an attorney until after Christmas, so I may try to find a way to encourage her to at least have an initial meeting with an attorney ASAP so she at least has information. While there is no plan for reconciliation, she does seem to believe that her husband will follow through with making this easy and child support, etc. What I take from your advice is prepare yourself, get on it as soon as possible, prepare for the worst, be surprised if it turns out better, get self care. I am concerned for her because I know she is not financially well-off, so I assume doing things DIY is probably very tempting, but I can only see how terrible the repercussions for her and her daughter could be for years to come.

I really want to thank those of you who shared your stories. I can't believe the heartache and emotional distress that you have gone through. I am glad some of you have been able to go through this and come out on the other side. And LithiumSunset, I hope your trial next month goes well. I'm thinking of you, and if you are ever in my neck of the woods, you have a standing invitation to Thanksgiving or any other dinner, never mind about bringing anything. I'd just be glad to have you around the dinner table.

[Reuben]

She told me his reasons for his behavior and I did tell her that even if what he says is true and she has faults, it NOT an excuse for his behavior - this is not her fault, it was his decision.

Do I understand correctly that he's blaming her?

If so, that's a huge red flag. "My bad behavior is your fault" is the story every psychological abuser tells his victims. He might not be one in general, but it can't mean anything good, either.

I am a little concerned that she does not want to see an attorney until after Christmas, so I may try to find a way to encourage her to at least have an initial meeting with an attorney ASAP so she at least has information. While there is no plan for reconciliation, she does seem to believe that her husband will follow through with making this easy and child support, etc.

He's very unlikely to follow through if he thinks devastating his wife and then blaming her for it is okay, because he thinks he deserves more than she does.

[Red Ryder]

Is it "you don't give me enough sex, so I found it elsewhere" type of blame?

That's ridiculous he blames her for his infidelity.

Get a lawyer quick!

[MoPag]

I am a little concerned that she does not want to see an attorney until after Christmas, so I may try to find a way to encourage her to at least have an initial meeting with an attorney ASAP so she at least has information.

A lot of divorce lawyers try to avoid going to court during the holidays because judges are generally more sentimental and lenient. So let her know this is actually a really good time to go and just talk to a lawyer. It will be harder to go see one after the holidays.

[Lithium Sunset]

No advice but glad she found a friend in you.

Okay, I need to stop. I’m sorry.... I hope you can pick through that and find something helpful....

Hugs to you LS

Thanks Anon

Amen to everything LithiumSunset and RubinHighlander said. (and hugs to you both)

Thanks MoPag. I have been wanting to reply to one of your other posts but it has been a busy week with semester finals

And LithiumSunset, I hope your trial next month goes well. I'm thinking of you, and if you are ever in my neck of the woods, you have a standing invitation to Thanksgiving or any other dinner, never mind about bringing anything. I'd just be glad to have you around the dinner table.

Thank you MerrieMiss. That got me teary eyed in a good way.