I'm about to be officially "outed": NOM Crowd-Sourcing

[wtfluff]

My relationship with my family (siblings, close aunts/uncles, cousins) is such that I've never "come out" to them about my disbelief. I'm sure some of them have their suspicions, but we're the typical passive-aggressive mormon type so if they do know, they just share blasphemous rumors behind my back, and honestly I don't see any of them enough that it matters.

Of course an upcoming temple marriage will bring me out of hiding, so I'm looking for replies to the possible questions that will essentially shut down the conversation, or at least change the subject. The wedding day isn't about the ugly old apostate, it's about the bride and groom.

I have a few ideas, like jokingly saying: "Yeah, they don't let me in there any more (the temple.)"

Or a bit more antagonistic: "Isn't it interesting how a church that preaches so much about how important family is literally separates families during their "most important" milestones?"

Or: "I've decided to only give money to charities who are financially transparent." (Probably too far eh?)

I'm pretty sure just saying: "It's all bullshit!" Won't be a good idea.


What say ye NOMmies? What are your best conversation-terminating replies to the question: "Why weren't you there for the creepy masonic polygamist wedding ceremony?"

[Red Ryder]

Wait for the day of and then tell everyone “I can’t make it, I have diarrhea!”

[wtfluff]

Wait for the day of and then tell everyone “I can’t make it, I have diarrhea!”

I knew you would have a good retort RR! Unfortunately, this is one I can't miss due to any illness, unless I'm literally on my death-bed.

Another reply I thought of: "I wasn't invited." (It's a little harsh too, but it's the truth.)

[moksha]

Will this be a Temple Welding followed by a same day reception? Just going to the reception should keep the family happy.

[Anon70]

Will they ask? I live blocks from a temple and am active and, based on my calling, people could correctly assume I have a TR. And I just wander over in time to be in pictures or I show up to the reception. I have missed several endowments and sealings in the last 4 years and no one has said a word to me or DH. I don’t offer excuses or bring it up and they don’t ask. Maybe just fly under the radar? If that’s possible in your situation.

[wtfluff]

Will they ask?

OK... I guess I just need to say it: It is one of my children who is getting married. My not attending the creepy ceremony will definitely be noticed and it is going to be a shock to some folks. I'll show up for pictures early enough to hang out with all the other folks who "weren't invited", but not showing at all at the temple is not an option, and I'll have the rest of the day's activities for people to "ask".

Will "they ask?" I really don't know. As I mentioned, my family would earn a gold medal in passive aggressive mormon behavior if it were an olympic sport. I'm not sure any of my actual siblings will ask. Like I mentioned, they will likely just talk behind my back about how to fix me, and nothing will ever be said to my face. It's likely that one of my sibling's spouses might ask. Nieces, nephews, cousins? And of course there's the nosy aunt. (Everyone has at least one, right?) I love her to death, but It wouldn't be surprising at all for her to "ask" to tame the cognitive dissonance that this will cause in her head. It's likely that many of these relatives look at my family as the perfect example of the mormon family, when the reality is: We're about as far from that as you can get. That reality is about to smack them up-side the head.

And the in-laws on the side of the family of my soon-to-be kid-in-law? I know nothing about that can of worms, or if they'll open it...

[Hagoth]

It's tough because they will be entertaining little scenarios in their heads of possible what ways you're not "worthy."

Here are some things I have used that seemed to work:
"Well, I'm a bit of an apostate."
"I can't go in because I drink tea."
"I've kinda moved on with my life."

The only response I've had to these was a former bishop who insisted that I'm not really an apostate (because then he'd have to excommunicate me).

Another goodie that I have heard used, but I haven't used myself:
"I'm a little behind on my tithing." (It takes their mind off sex, porn, Satan worship, antimormonliter'chur, and heroine)

If you need me to show up dressed as one of the Three Nephites to create a distraction or something, just let me know. Or if you need a buddy to sit with out in the lone and dreary world while everyone else is inside bowing heads and gesticulating, I would be honored. I'm serious (well, not about the dress-up thing). PM me if you need a wingman.

Good luck!

[Red Ryder]

Well damn. This just sucks.

Your kid is getting married and you can't be there! This is my reality in the next year or two at the earliest and it pissed me off so bad to think about.

When is te wedding? Can you go get one before it's too late? Or borrow Corsair's temple recommend and go participate?

I hate this church for its exclusiveness. Just hate it.

[WholesomeRecreation]

Passive aggression is always a fulfilling strategy:

I drink iced tea now because it's healthier than soda.
My spouse and I are too promiscuous in the bedroom per Pres. Hinckley's marriage rules.
I'm a democrat so I couldn't answer no to the TR question about being involved in groups that are against the church.
I support lgbtq+ rights so I couldn't answer no to the TR question about being involved in groups that are against the church.
I like coffee too much to forego it for eternity.


That being said, I'm sorry. That sucks.

[Just This Guy]

"Emergency at work. I had to run in to take care of it. By the time I finished I was too late to make it to the ceremony, but I was a able to finish with enough time to get back to go to the reception."

[Dravin]

I knew you would have a good retort RR! Unfortunately, this is one I can't miss due to any illness, unless I'm literally on my death-bed.

I dunno, some ipecac syrup and a willingness to vomit on yourself just as you are about to leave the house (or better yet at the threshold to the temple) would probably work. The key is to time it such that there is no time to go back and change (or take a time out and eat some saltines), they either cancel things or it goes on without you present.

It does mean you'll likely have to lay off any cake at the reception for appearances sake though (which honestly with some of the wedding cakes I've tried, wouldn't be a great loss).

[Anon70]

Ah....so sorry. This is why I’m faking it . Good luck!

[IT_Veteran]

I had to do this twice last year: once for my SIL's wedding and the other for my brother's endowment. SIL specifically planned her wedding around my summer schedule so they could have me there. My brother flew from Utah out to Sacramento so that parents, siblings, and me could be there.

A couple of months before the wedding, my wife asked if I'd like her to let her family know I couldn't join them in the temple. At the time there were no worthiness issues as I was just figuring stuff out (still paying tithing even) but I didn't believe anymore. She was kind of enough to tell her parents and siblings, which were the only ones that really needed to know. For everybody else, I just told them I forgot my recommend at home (which was two states away).

My brother's endowment was just a few months later, so I had to repeat the whole thing with my family.

Through all of it I found that a simple, direct statement worked best. "I'm sorry I won't be able to join you in the temple. I'm happy to support you, but I don't have a current recommend." Doing this in advance (nearly) eliminates having the awkward conversation on a day that should be about the bride and groom.

If they want to make suppositions as to why, that's their problem.

[crossmyheart]

Whatever you do, try not to get roped into sticking it out in the waiting room of shame. There is nothing like the pity faces that you get in there. And then getting stuck with the screaming babies with separation anxiety from their 20-something holier than thou Momma.

Stay outside, enjoy the fresh air, and join the group once they are gathered outside for photos. Act as though you belong and have been there all along. In the chaos, sometimes people don't even notice.
You could always carry a prop- like a starbucks cup, or a cigar...

[wtfluff]

Well damn. This just sucks.

Your kid is getting married and you can't be there! This is my reality in the next year or two at the earliest and it pissed me off so bad to think about.

Honestly, I've had ~5 years to prepare for this, and so far, I'm doing alright mentally. Again, I'm missing a 5 minute polygamist ceremony. They're of course having a "ring ceremony" later for those of us who "aren't good enough" and honestly, that's going to be more memorable, and more meaningful than the creepy religious ceremony. (I do plan on mentioning that to the happy couple. ) Who knows? I might break down in to a quivering mass of (green?) gelatin the day of... That could be interesting.

When is the wedding? Can you go get one before it's too late? Or borrow Corsair's temple recommend and go participate?

Well... It's this weekend, and yeah, a black market recommend has crossed my mind, but I don't think my child, or my child's mother would want me to do that. The folks that "know" might pass out cold if I showed my dark countenance in a sealing room. I think that would be more about me than about the couple getting married, so I decided to just sit this one out. The funny thought of going in disguise has crossed my mind also, but again, I don't want to cause a scene. There's also no way in hell I'm going anywhere near a bishop or steak president to get a golden ticket "legally".

"Emergency at work. I had to run in to take care of it. By the time I finished I was too late to make it to the ceremony, but I was a able to finish with enough time to get back to go to the reception."

Yeah, I spent more than 40 years lying to myself, and everyone in my life to try and be a good member of the mormon corporation. I'm done lying and pretending to be someone else to protect the church and it's followers.

Through all of it I found that a simple, direct statement worked best. "I'm sorry I won't be able to join you in the temple. I'm happy to support you, but I don't have a current recommend." Doing this in advance (nearly) eliminates having the awkward conversation on a day that should be about the bride and groom.

The "advanced confession" isn't happening as you can see. This thread is basically about how to keep the focus on the bride and groom, so I guess on of my best replies might be: "Today is about (happy couple.) If you really want to talk about me at some point in the future, let me know." (The vast majority of believers don't really want to talk about it, so that'll end the conversation forever...)


That being said, I'm enjoying the passive-aggressive, snarky replies. Honestly, there are probably some folks I could use some of those with if they ask, so keep them coming.

"I've stopped giving my money to hate groups" would probably shut down the conversation quick, no?

Whatever you do, try not to get roped into sticking it out in the waiting room of shame. There is nothing like the pity faces that you get in there. And then getting stuck with the screaming babies with separation anxiety from their 20-something holier than thou Momma.

Stay outside, enjoy the fresh air, and join the group once they are gathered outside for photos. Act as though you belong and have been there all along. In the chaos, sometimes people don't even notice.
You could always carry a prop- like a starbucks cup, or a cigar...

Yeah, that's not an issue, and there are going to be plenty of other folks to hang out with: My other kids, apostate in-laws, all the nieces and nephews who aren't old enough to do the polygamist ceremony, and one of my future child-in-law's brothers will be out there with all the telestial folks too, so that part will be OK. It will be the perfect opportunity to apologize to my parents-in-law for the church keeping them out of 3/4 of their kid's weddings, and likely the majority of their grand-kid's weddings.

[MoPag]

I knew you would have a good retort RR! Unfortunately, this is one I can't miss due to any illness, unless I'm literally on my death-bed.

I dunno, some ipecac syrup and a willingness to vomit on yourself just as you are about to leave the house (or better yet at the threshold to the temple) would probably work. The key is to time it such that there is no time to go back and change (or take a time out and eat some saltines), they either cancel things or it goes on without you present.

It does mean you'll likely have to lay off any cake at the reception for appearances sake though (which honestly with some of the wedding cakes I've tried, wouldn't be a great loss).

Or if a grandkid, niece, nephew or some other young child were to get "sick" (I'm not advocating giving them anything to make them sick) or maybe they have a melt down or a temper tantrum. You could swoop in and be the hero that takes care of the kid.

Or just be the hero for a fake emergency:
"Where are you going Brother Fluff?"
"Wedding emergency. But I've got it. Don't worry about it. Do NOT wait for me. Focus on BRIDE and GROOM. It's their day. I'll be back when I can."

Or maybe its time to start a DAMU temple recommend sharing plan.

[MoPag]

"Emergency at work. I had to run in to take care of it. By the time I finished I was too late to make it to the ceremony, but I was a able to finish with enough time to get back to go to the reception."

Yeah, I spent more than 40 years lying to myself, and everyone in my life to try and be a good member of the mormon corporation. I'm done lying and pretending to be someone else to protect the church and it's followers.

Okay I just read this. Fluff you are awesome!! I'm not there yet and I don't know if I will ever be. I admire you.

[alas]

This is why I faked it for forever.

I have found since I gave up pretending that the more honest you are and then maintain your boundaries firmly, life just seems to go better. Some people may not like you as much, because they know who you are, but then other people will like you more because they know who you are. So, ever since I quit faking belief in total junk, I have been as honest as possible, with boundaries that make the Berlin Wall look friendly. So, I answer such questions with something like, “well, they don’t let apostates in.” Or, “If I were to do a TR interview, they would go back to burning heretics at the stake.” Or, “hard core inactive are not allowed in.” Or even, “I made a choice not to go because I am no longer a believing Mormon.” But, stating up front that you are apostate and then refusing to discuss religion seems to end any speculation about adultery or anything that can be fixed. It states that this is your choice and if they offer to try to fix you, you just refuse to discuss it, with something to the effect of, “Look, I was born into the church and that was not my choice, but leaving it was my choice and I have no desire to go back.” Just the other day I firmly informed my new ministering sisters that I am hard core inactive but I do allow visiting teachers if they don’t try to get me reactivated. They said that was fine, so I didn’t have to throw them out.

But then I don’t have obnoxious relatives.....well, I do but I didn’t like him from the beginning and the other obnoxious ones are all either Jack Mormon or apostate. The active believing ones all seen to accept that good people leave the church. Some have asked DH, but they accepted his reply and leave me alone about it and it doesn’t seem to have damaged the relationship any. If my DH wanted me back in, it might be different, but he has told people that the church is emotionally damaging to me. Shuts them up when the believing spouse would just as soon you not come back.

So, I vote for honest statement that says you don’t believe and chose not to lie about belief to get in.

[RubinHighlander]

Some fluffy thoughts:

- I support and love my kids, but I don't support and love the corporation anymore.
- I have a number of important unresolved questions for the church they can't answer yet. The church is aware of these questions and trying to come up with answers. You can see a lot of these questions in a Faith Crisis Report that was prepared for the church and in their possession for the past decade. If you are interested in this report, it's been leaked online this year and I can send you a link.

[glass shelf]

I think honest kindness is the way to go. "I don't have a temple recommend because I no longer participate at that level in the LDS church" or something to that effect. I don't believe that lying to make things easier for believers is the way to go, either.

The focus of the day should be on the bride and groom so just direct it back there.