I was willfully ignorant - I shouldn't complain.

[hiding in plain sight]

I have to admit that even though I was a TBM and wanted the church to be true, there were times in my life (between 18 and 32) where questions would arise and I would consider whether or not the church was true.

I always came down with some satisfactory answer that the church was true and I would continue on my journey. Even though I really never dug very hard and I stopped thinking once I found an answer that was plausible.

But when I was 32 I made a choice. I told myself, "I feel the spirit on a regular basis. I am going to stop pursuing any critical questions about the church and just recognize that my spiritual experiences allow me to believe/know that it is all true."

So there I was. From the ages from 32 to 46, I just believed. I felt the spirit. I ignored critical questions. I would still engage with the world at large. But I think my response to my christian, pastor, home builder, who was building my home pretty much describes who I was. When he challenged my beliefs, I just looked at him and shrugged my shoulders. I told him. If I am believing the wrong things, then God should really stop blessing me. I see miracles on a daily basis. So I just have to keep going on the path that is mine.

I am sure I frustrated him. But in those days, I was teflon. No amount of evidence could get me to think about the church.

I just wanted to believe. And so I did.

If it wasn't for my oldest son leaving the church and me diving in deep to truly find the real answers and try to save his immortal soul, then I would still be that type of mormon to this day, that we see so often.

Willfully ignorant.

I was one of them. I shouldn't really complain when I run into them on a regular basis today and just have some sympathy.

We all have to live our own lives. I wouldn't change anything. But I am grateful for knowing what I know now.

[Anon70]

I don't know...I feel like I read and heard things but ignored them because I'd been told it was "anti material". We were so indoctrinated. So I guess I'd prefer to think I was brain-washed more than I ignored...We were trained to reject logic, inconsistencies, racism, misogyny....

[hiding in plain sight]

I don't know...I feel like I read and heard things but ignored them because I'd been told it was "anti material". We were so indoctrinated. So I guess I'd prefer to think I was brain-washed more than I ignored...We were trained to reject logic, inconsistencies, racism, misogyny....

I agree with you that there is a lot of training and culture that supports ignoring evidences that contradict your faith.

I can only speak for me, but I made an intentional choice to close my mind and just focus on the spirit. No one made me do it, even though the culture supported doing it.

[Newme]

HidingInPlainSight,
Thanks for sharing this perspective.
It's really good to remember how many of us were previously - to be more patient and compassionate with others in our lives who are still working from that paradigm.

And it gives me hope that maybe they are thinking about things - beneath all of the willful ignorance.
Part of the problem - why many remain willfully ignorant to their dying day - is because to them it's all-or-nothing - there is no in between. "The church is either all true or all a lie" - "You're either on the Lord's side or you're not." All BS. The church has some teachings that are good - and true - like FHE and basically serving and loving one another. It has some lies like financial issues and dysfunctional teachings (like polarized thinking distortion). Nobody's exclusively 100% on the Lord's side 24-7 - we're human beings who do both godly and ungodly things regularly.

[wtfluff]

But when I was 32 I made a choice. I told myself, "I feel the spirit on a regular basis. I am going to stop pursuing any critical questions about the church and just recognize that my spiritual experiences allow me to believe/know that it is all true."

The thing is... When you believe that pursuing critical questions could lead to eternal torment, the choice to believe seems a bit more logical.

[The Beast]

The church's mental conditioning is nothing if not thorough. I questioned when I was junior high aged, but from HS until about 40, I was Teflon TBM to the core. Confirmation bias bulletproof. That was me. No more, and the church has only itself to blame for losing me since my journey down this path of disbelief was precipitated by me following the advice of the brethren. I cannot just choose to believe and cram my head back in the sand.

[Hagoth]

We have discussed at length the similarities of our situations, HIPS.

But when I was 32 I made a choice. I told myself, "I feel the spirit on a regular basis. I am going to stop pursuing any critical questions about the church and just recognize that my spiritual experiences allow me to believe/know that it is all true."

I did pretty much the same when I was 32. That was the year I got married. I had some spiritual experiences and committed myself to do everything I could to rebuild my testimony. My biggest problem was that I decided to do it by proving to myself that the BoM is true. That didn't work out so well in the long run.

If it wasn't for my oldest son leaving the church and me diving in deep to truly find the real answers and try to save his immortal soul, then I would still be that type of mormon to this day, that we see so often.

I was desperately trying to cling to my testimony "for the kids' sake." When my oldest son left the church (20 years after my commitment) my reason for clinging to my testimony began to evaporate. In a way, my son's resignation gave me permission to face my doubts.

[DPRoberts]

I just wanted to believe. And so I did.

Willfully ignorant.

If I see Mormonism as a pious fraud, I also need to acknowledge what a willing mark I was given the amount of stuff I willingly put on the shelf. Good insight.

If it wasn't for my oldest son leaving the church and me diving in deep to truly find the real answers and try to save his immortal soul, then I would still be that type of mormon to this day, that we see so often.

This helped undo my willingness to go along. My oldest daughter stopped attending church shortly after her 18th birthday. I did the math and I was also about age 46 when that happened. The sad heaven scenario certainly motivated me to reexamine the contents of my shelf, as well as add some new bricks.

I was one of them. I shouldn't really complain when I run into them on a regular basis today and just have some sympathy.
We all have to live our own lives. I wouldn't change anything. But I am grateful for knowing what I know now.

Yes, we have to take ownership of our part in "cartoon" and have some empathy for those still caught in the script. Likewise, it is liberating to discovery what is on the other side of the FC. I will gladly own that.

[Hermey]

In a way, my son's resignation gave me permission to face my doubts.

This is a very important point.

From the time a member of the Church is in nursery until they die (and even just after death), the member's life is essentially directed in every way.... what to wear, when to wear it, how to wear it, who to associate with, who to stay away from, what to/not to eat and drink, where and when to/not to go to church, when to/not to date, when to get married, when to have kids, what to/not to read, where to/not to get married, and what to/not to think, etc. etc.

Truly independent thinking and responsibility for oneself terrifies (at least on a subconscious level) the average member. And, until a person gives themselves permission to think or consider something independent of the Church, they will simply put things up on a shelf and ignore or otherwise dismiss them.

[orangganjil]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for sharing.

I'm a spry 41 years of age. I don't know that I was ever willfully ignorant, though I chose to set plenty on my shelf. My family was inactive during my teenage years so I missed out on a lot of the indoctrination of the church. I had a prompting to go back so I did, including going on a mission.

Funny story about my mission: a month or so prior to leaving I went up to Idaho to hang out with my grandpa. He has been inactive for years. We were driving back from a fishing trip and he said I should read a book called "No Man Knows My History". He told me what it was about and I politely declined. However, when I got home I went to the library, checked the book out, and read it all. I had a ton of questions and concerns, but I shelved them because I really wanted to go on a mission.

I finished my mission, went to college, got married, had kids, and was building my career as a young father and husband. I shelved many things over those years simply because I didn't have the time to really do justice to my study. I also had a sneaking suspicion that there was a Bogeyman alongside all those items and I didn't want to disrupt our great little life. I suppose I chose to remain ignorant.

Fast forward several years and I read Approaching Zion by Nibley. That book completely blew my mind (I still absolutely love that book) and I realized I didn't truly understand my religion. If I truly believed the religion had eternal consequences, and I was going to pass it on to my children, it was time I gave it the serious attention such a thing deserves. So, I began, one by one, studying the things on my shelf. Over the course of about 10 years I did this, agonizing over the conclusions I was drawing. Interestingly, my relationship with God has grown stronger over those years and I feel closer to God, with a stronger faith in Jesus than I have ever had in my life. However, my belief in the church collapsed. I attempted to continue going while not believing much taught, but the November 5th policy change totally changed that calculus for me.

My wife, while not having done the same research, has done enough that she has come to the same conclusions. I am extremely grateful that we are on the same page on this. I know many are not so fortunate.

We have chosen to hold the church at arm's length. We still go about once per month. We have a great ward with wonderful people. We want to maintain contact with them. Many of them are willfully ignorant of the issues. The church works for them and I don't begrudge them that at all.

We also want to keep the church as an option for our kids. There are some good things about the church and I don't want to poison that well for my children. They know it is an option for them and we'd fully support them. It is one option among many, and we've clearly discussed why we don't attend much. We feel like we're giving our children the freedom to build faith without the coercion of the church hierarchy. I believe that is the faith that God wants and the faith that will truly endure.

Anyway, thanks again for the wonderful discussion.

[MalcolmVillager]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for sharing.

I'm a spry 41 years of age. I don't know that I was ever willfully ignorant, though I chose to set plenty on my shelf. My family was inactive during my teenage years so I missed out on a lot of the indoctrination of the church. I had a prompting to go back so I did, including going on a mission.

Funny story about my mission: a month or so prior to leaving I went up to Idaho to hang out with my grandpa. He has been inactive for years. We were driving back from a fishing trip and he said I should read a book called "No Man Knows My History". He told me what it was about and I politely declined. However, when I got home I went to the library, checked the book out, and read it all. I had a ton of questions and concerns, but I shelved them because I really wanted to go on a mission.

I finished my mission, went to college, got married, had kids, and was building my career as a young father and husband. I shelved many things over those years simply because I didn't have the time to really do justice to my study. I also had a sneaking suspicion that there was a Bogeyman alongside all those items and I didn't want to disrupt our great little life. I suppose I chose to remain ignorant.

Fast forward several years and I read Approaching Zion by Nibley. That book completely blew my mind (I still absolutely love that book) and I realized I didn't truly understand my religion. If I truly believed the religion had eternal consequences, and I was going to pass it on to my children, it was time I gave it the serious attention such a thing deserves. So, I began, one by one, studying the things on my shelf. Over the course of about 10 years I did this, agonizing over the conclusions I was drawing. Interestingly, my relationship with God has grown stronger over those years and I feel closer to God, with a stronger faith in Jesus than I have ever had in my life. However, my belief in the church collapsed. I attempted to continue going while not believing much taught, but the November 5th policy change totally changed that calculus for me.

My wife, while not having done the same research, has done enough that she has come to the same conclusions. I am extremely grateful that we are on the same page on this. I know many are not so fortunate.

We have chosen to hold the church at arm's length. We still go about once per month. We have a great ward with wonderful people. We want to maintain contact with them. Many of them are willfully ignorant of the issues. The church works for them and I don't begrudge them that at all.

We also want to keep the church as an option for our kids. There are some good things about the church and I don't want to poison that well for my children. They know it is an option for them and we'd fully support them. It is one option among many, and we've clearly discussed why we don't attend much. We feel like we're giving our children the freedom to build faith without the coercion of the church hierarchy. I believe that is the faith that God wants and the faith that will truly endure.

Anyway, thanks again for the wonderful discussion.

You sound like where I am in many ways with the church, community, and kids.

[NOMinally Mormon]

I quit church after two of my sons quit. Sometimes I wonder if they stayed, if I would have stayed, just because of inertia. But I was a jackmo, tho active, who didnt match the typical mormon personality. So after they left the church, remaining active just started to seem pointless.

[Jinx]

I find it so interesting that so many of us are being taught self-confidence by our children. I have maintained for a long time that "millennials" are by and large great people. I love hanging with my kids and their friends. They are earnest and thoughtful and they challenge me daily.

It was actually my DH who gave me the key to the exit. He left before I did and we had many difficult conversations as I struggled to maintain a sense of self outside the church. But my kids had a lot to do with it too. Seeing the way TBMs treated my non-traditional daughters was a real eye opener. And the November 5 policy slammed the exit door behind me and locked it. I will never again believe that this is Jesus' church.