Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

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deacon blues
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by deacon blues » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:12 pm

That looks interesting. My wife and I have read "The First Five People You Meet in Heaven." We also have read some David McCollough history. I think we have to work to find common ground. All marriages will have to do this as they go along. My wife has amazing strengths where I am weak. The journey is always interesting.
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20/20hind
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my

Post by 20/20hind » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:24 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 am
In my case I let my wife run it and I sit there passively. I have a "do no harm" policy regarding indoctrination. I won't stop it because I can't, but I won't be an active participant either.

This is the approach i take also. Ive tried to limit the indoctrination of my kids and it caused some serious chaos in my marriage. I cant stop it so i have no part of it. Hopefully my kids will figure it out on their own. I just focus on being the best father i can without all the nutty mormon teachings.

What i have figured out in dealing with this is many people have to be right, like the church is the true church. I focus on being good rather than right. If that makes sense.

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deacon blues
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by deacon blues » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:24 pm

I liked the book. There is one place where she describes herself as a "recovering religion addict......" aw, but I shouldn't give it away ;)
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deacon blues
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by deacon blues » Sat May 16, 2020 5:23 pm

Sorry if this is too long but I felt impressed to post this article in this thread. It might be too deep for young children, but use your judgement.

The Ancient Greeks’ 6 Words for Love (And Why Knowing Them Can Change Your Life)
Looking for an antidote to modern culture's emphasis on romantic love? Perhaps we can learn from the diverse forms of emotional attachment prized by the ancient Greeks.
BY ROMAN KRZNARIC, DEC 28, 2013
Today’s coffee culture has an incredibly sophisticated vocabulary. Do you want a cappuccino, an espresso, a skinny latte, or maybe an iced caramel macchiato?


The ancient Greeks were just as sophisticated in the way they talked about love, recognizing six different varieties. They would have been shocked by our crudeness in using a single word both to whisper “I love you” over a candlelit meal and to casually sign an email “lots of love.”

So what were the six loves known to the Greeks? And how can they inspire us to move beyond our current addiction to romantic love, which has 94 percent of young people hoping—but often failing—to find a unique soul mate who can satisfy all their emotional needs?

1. Eros, or sexual passion
The first kind of love was eros, named after the Greek god of fertility, and it represented the idea of sexual passion and desire. But the Greeks didn’t always think of it as something positive, as we tend to do today. In fact, eros was viewed as a dangerous, fiery, and irrational form of love that could take hold of you and possess you—an attitude shared by many later spiritual thinkers, such as the Christian writer C. S. Lewis. Eros involved a loss of control that frightened the Greeks. Which is odd, because losing control is precisely what many people now seek in a relationship. Don’t we all hope to fall “madly” in love?

2. Philia, or deep friendship
The second variety of love was philia or friendship, which the Greeks valued far more than the base sexuality of eros. Philia concerned the deep comradely friendship that developed between brothers in arms who had fought side by side on the battlefield. It was about showing loyalty to your friends, sacrificing for them, as well as sharing your emotions with them. (Another kind of philia, sometimes called storge, embodied the love between parents and their children.)

We can all ask ourselves how much of this comradely philia we have in our lives. It’s an important question in an age when we attempt to amass “friends” on Facebook or “followers” on Twitter—achievements that would have hardly impressed the Greeks.

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3. Ludus, or playful love
While philia could be a matter of great seriousness, there was a third type of love valued by the ancient Greeks, which was playful love. Following the Roman poet Ovid, scholars (such as the philosopher A. C. Grayling) commonly use the Latin word ludus to describe this form of love, which concerns the playful affection between children or casual lovers. We’ve all had a taste of it in the flirting and teasing in the early stages of a relationship. But we also live out our ludus when we sit around in a bar bantering and laughing with friends, or when we go out dancing.

Dancing with strangers may be the ultimate ludic activity, almost a playful substitute for sex itself. Social norms may frown on this kind of adult frivolity, but a little more ludus might be just what we need to spice up our love lives.

4. Agape, or love for everyone
The fourth love, and perhaps the most radical, was agape or selfless love. This was a love that you extended to all people, whether family members or distant strangers. Agape was later translated into Latin as caritas, which is the origin of our word “charity.”

C.S. Lewis referred to it as “gift love,” the highest form of Christian love. But it also appears in other religious traditions, such as the idea of mettā or “universal loving kindness” in Theravāda Buddhism.

There is growing evidence that agape is in a dangerous decline in many countries. Empathy levels in the U.S. have declined sharply over the past 40 years, with the steepest fall occurring in the past decade. We urgently need to revive our capacity to care about strangers.

5. Pragma, or longstanding love
The use of the ancient Greek root pragma as a form of love was popularized by the Canadian sociologist John Allen Lee in the 1970s, who described it as a mature, realistic love that is commonly found amongst long-established couples. Pragma is about making compromises to help the relationship work over time, and showing patience and tolerance. There is in fact little evidence that the Greeks commonly used this precise term themselves, so it is best thought of as a modern update on the ancient Greek loves.

The psychoanalyst Erich Fromm said that we expend too much energy on “falling in love” and need to learn more how to “stand in love.” Pragma is precisely about standing in love—making an effort to give love rather than just receive it. With about a third of first marriages in the U.S. ending through divorce or separation in the first 10 years, we should surely think about bringing a serious dose of pragma into our relationships.

6. Philautia, or love of the self
The Greek’s sixth variety of love was philautia or self-love. And clever Greeks such as Aristotle realized there were two types. One was an unhealthy variety associated with narcissism, where you became self-obsessed and focused on personal fame and fortune. A healthier version enhanced your wider capacity to love.

The idea was that if you like yourself and feel secure in yourself, you will have plenty of love to give others (as is reflected in the Buddhist-inspired concept of “self-compassion”). Or, as Aristotle put it, “All friendly feelings for others are an extension of a man’s feelings for himself.”

The ancient Greeks found diverse kinds of love in relationships with a wide range of people—friends, family, spouses, strangers, and even themselves. This contrasts with our typical focus on a single romantic relationship, where we hope to find all the different loves wrapped into a single person or soul mate. The message from the Greeks is to nurture the varieties of love and tap into its many sources. Don’t just seek eros, but cultivate philia by spending more time with old friends, or develop ludus by dancing the night away.

Moreover, we should abandon our obsession with perfection. Don’t expect your partner to offer you all the varieties of love, all of the time (with the danger that you may toss aside a partner who fails to live up to your desires). Recognize that a relationship may begin with plenty of eros and ludus, then evolve toward embodying more pragma or agape.

The diverse Greek system of loves can also provide consolation. By mapping out the extent to which all six loves are present in your life, you might discover you’ve got a lot more love than you had ever imagined—even if you feel an absence of a physical lover.

It’s time we introduced the six varieties of Greek love into our everyday way of speaking and thinking. If the art of coffee deserves its own sophisticated vocabulary, then why not the art of love?

This article originally appeared in Sojourners. It has been edited for YES! Magazine. For a more detailed discussion of the six loves, including a full list of scholarly references, please see Roman Krznaric’s bookHow Should We Live? Great Ideas from the Past for Everyday Life.

Roman Krznaric
ROMAN KRZNARIC is a public philosopher and former political scientist. He is the author of several books, including Carpe Diem: Seizing the Day in a Distracted World, and is the founder of the Empathy Museum.
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Palerider
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by Palerider » Sat May 16, 2020 8:45 pm

Not Buying It wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:36 am
Really - the only possible things to teach kids are the things that come from the Church, and in all the world there are no viable alternatives? If we don't teach them from Church manuals, what else could we possibly use? Nothing?

Sometimes the world of Mormonism is a small, shallow world, that has little comprehension or conception of the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that lies outside of it.
I don't think many people doubt there is a plethora of good literature and stand alone alternatives out there to choose from. The thing the LDS church does well, is to wrap all of their stuff up in a nice neat little "programming" package. It's easy to use.

If you're a single individual who already has their basic moral sense established you can afford to explore various avenues of thought like this independently. But if you're in the process of raising children it would be nice to have things; basic moral teachings or curriculum, wrapped up in a nice, neat package.

I'm wondering if a family therapist, psychologist or social worker would have a good line on something of this nature? I think I would start there or even explore some of the ideas of family therapist instructors at a university. I'm betting they might be able to point someone searching for this type of curriculum in the right direction.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Angel
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by Angel » Sun May 17, 2020 6:27 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 pm
To help kids, find some books from the library about Lincoln, Jefferson, Edison, Elanor Roosevelt, the Wright Brothers, etc.
That was my first thought - study examples of real people who made positive contributions.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Angel
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by Angel » Sun May 17, 2020 6:33 pm

Palerider wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:45 pm
Not Buying It wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:36 am
Really - the only possible things to teach kids are the things that come from the Church, and in all the world there are no viable alternatives? If we don't teach them from Church manuals, what else could we possibly use? Nothing?

Sometimes the world of Mormonism is a small, shallow world, that has little comprehension or conception of the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that lies outside of it.
I don't think many people doubt there is a plethora of good literature and stand alone alternatives out there to choose from. The thing the LDS church does well, is to wrap all of their stuff up in a nice neat little "programming" package. It's easy to use.

If you're a single individual who already has their basic moral sense established you can afford to explore various avenues of thought like this independently. But if you're in the process of raising children it would be nice to have things; basic moral teachings or curriculum, wrapped up in a nice, neat package.

I'm wondering if a family therapist, psychologist or social worker would have a good line on something of this nature? I think I would start there or even explore some of the ideas of family therapist instructors at a university. I'm betting they might be able to point someone searching for this type of curriculum in the right direction.
When our kids were small, I would let them choose a topic they were interested in - animals, rockets, cooking, music, art etc. We would then go to our local library, head to that subject's section, and choose books. Once you have a topic in mind, it is not too difficult to create an activity / field trip / hands on project out of it. I liked giving kids the chance to pick their own topic, sooper easy and fun!

I group anything spiritual or churchy in the liberal arts field. Anything - poetry, dance, art, etc from liberal arts easily substitutes for church.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

hmb
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by hmb » Mon May 18, 2020 6:20 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:24 pm
This just in: Mrs. Hagoth has suggested that for our home study we read Emily Pearson's Dancing With Crazy. :shock:

Here's Amazon's description:
Emily Pearson’s memoir Dancing With Crazy is the true story of her personal derailment, both horrifically and humorously demonstrating what happens when mindless obedience to religious authority supersedes plain old common sense. As a young Mormon girl Emily gave up her own personal power, relinquished the ability to think for herself and allowed herself to blow with a wind that carried her from studying scriptures in the Sunday School classes of correctly clothed, righteous descendants of Mormon pioneers, to studying porn on San Francisco’s Castro Street with her gay father and half naked drag queens, to drowning in depression in a stinky apartment in Hollywood, to puking in the toilet of a courting polygamist, to marrying her very own gay man in a Mormon Temple. After nearly losing her mind several times over, Emily disentangled herself from toxic and narcissistic personalities, walked away from a crippling religion and finally learned to think, act and live for herself.
Dancing With Crazy is both heartbreaking and heart warming – an inspiring story filled with religious fundamentalists, transvestites, AIDS, love, abuse, obsession, visions, sex, Satan and salvation.
I'm in.
I liked this book, but I'm not sure what I would have thought of it as a TBM. Did anything come of Mrs. Hagoth's suggestion?

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Hagoth
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 18, 2020 6:55 am

hmb wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:20 am
Hagoth wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:24 pm
This just in: Mrs. Hagoth has suggested that for our home study we read Emily Pearson's Dancing With Crazy. :shock:
I liked this book, but I'm not sure what I would have thought of it as a TBM. Did anything come of Mrs. Hagoth's suggestion?
Wow, I had totally forgotten about this. We got really busy with other things and it slipped through the cracks. I'll see if she's still interested and willing.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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slavereeno
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Re: Looks like I'll be doing my "Home Study" after all...

Post by slavereeno » Fri May 22, 2020 9:57 am

One of the things DW and I have discussed is how to teach morals and ethics without the church's tidy little package.

Our agreement is that we spend time each Sunday involved in a moral or spiritual discussion as a family, but that the discussion should appeal to everyone, including myself. To that end, the discussion would not be religious or dogmatic, but rather it would be convesations about ethical dilemmas, philosophy, parables, fables, literature, poetry etc. Where we discuss how to think and how to become better human beings.

We presented this idea to our family and, we were surprised at how excited everyone was, no matter where they were in their faith.

So, I am glad I re-discovered this thread, some good thoughts in here. Thanks all.

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