Infantilization of the mind

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Just This Guy
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Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:02 am

2bizE wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:58 pm
So my wife is pretty TBM. No rated R movies. But we have been watching the Outlander series together.
DW is big into Game of Thrones, Me, only somewhat. I struggle with the first few seasons, getting though all the political intrigue. My TBM DM really turns her nose up at GoT and has some snide remark to DW and me whenever we mention it. Same with The Tudors

This last Christmas, we discovered my DM is hugely into Outlander. Needless to say DW and I were floored. We watched a few episodes and knew it was somewhere between The Tutors and GoT for violence and nudity. WE we more than willing to indulge DM's habit by getting her Season 1 on Bluray and the book for Christmas.

The mental gymnastics can be amazing to watch as an outsider.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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crossmyheart
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Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain

Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by crossmyheart » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:31 pm

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:38 am
slavereeno wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:52 am
græy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 am
Is this what God wants for his children? We are Gods in embryo right? We're meant to become universal architects ourselves right? How do we do that if we're not allowed to use our own brains? Or are our future God-selves expected to continue to follow the program and pattern that has been laid out since before we emerged from the great unlimited glob of "intelligence(s)" without any thought or initiative of our own involved?
This. I tried arguing that they way we are treated, talked down to, the strict dogma, the "worthiness" interviews, the "trust us and stay on the boat", the virtue signaling, the strict commandments, the deferral of our spirituality and our very ethos to "The Brethren", all this is counter to the supposed plan to one day be a God ourselves. The Doctrine is acutely self-defeating.
I point this out with my husband: "I was raised in a church that taught me that agency was the most important thing I had and the most important tool for growth so I could become like him (god)." Fortunately, my husband remembers the huge emphasis on agency and agrees that the church stifles it. However I've noticed the church has moved away from free agency, to just agency, and not it's not agency at all, just blind obedience. It makes it easier to produce shallow, thought stopping beliefs and mask it as thinking and study.
I remember when I was much younger--high school and college and even mission-- I was so interested in the deep doctrine- really delving into the Apocrypha and Dead Sea scrolls and whatnot. I felt it was my responsibility to know everything- because the only thing we get to take to the spirit world is our knowledge and I wanted to be ahead of the game.

But over time on my mission and at institute and singles ward, that desire to research was suppressed by the patriarchal church- I needed to be submissive and find a husband and pop out kids.

And you know what? I accepted it- and even enjoyed it a little- the thinking was over- I just needed to follow the rules. I was an intelligent, educated simpleton. I wasn't even interested in agency anymore because that flies in the face of obedience. I consciously accepted becoming a zombie.

I am truly EMBARRASSED by my words and behavior early on in my career- when I used such simplistic language and reprimanded others for their language and behavior. I must have been viewed as a complete imbecile by my peers for the way I acted.

When I finally realized the church was bogus, it was as though I had left the world of black and white and saw the full spectrum of colors. As though I could finally taste food and see a rainbow for the first time.

Once you have eaten at a fine restaurant, the bland monotony of McDonald's or Olive Garden can be nauseating. You know you can always go to any of their restaurants and order from the same menu, but why when you have now seen and tasted better.

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Hagoth
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Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:02 pm

crossmyheart wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:31 pm
I wasn't even interested in agency anymore because that flies in the face of obedience. I consciously accepted becoming a zombie.
The 14th Article of Faith: We believe in surrendering personal agency because it flies in the face of obedience.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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græy
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Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by græy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 pm

crossmyheart wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:31 pm
I am truly EMBARRASSED by my words and behavior early on in my career- when I used such simplistic language and reprimanded others for their language and behavior. I must have been viewed as a complete imbecile by my peers for the way I acted.
I fear this now too. Only I'm already 13+ years into my career. I can see missed opportunities for both advancement and friendship that have occurred because of my commitment to what I thought were true principles. I once thought I was sooo lucky to have been born into the one true church. Now, I have a real claim to blame my late start and diminished potential on a faith that not only isn't what it claims to be, but damages those who follow it.

Ah well, in the words of your avatar, crossmyheart... let it go, or be dragged.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 pm

græy wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 pm
I fear this now too. Only I'm already 13+ years into my career. I can see missed opportunities for both advancement and friendship that have occurred because of my commitment to what I thought were true principles. I once thought I was sooo lucky to have been born into the one true church. Now, I have a real claim to blame my late start and diminished potential on a faith that not only isn't what it claims to be, but damages those who follow it.

Ah well, in the words of your avatar, crossmyheart... let it go, or be dragged.
I vividly remember sitting at the "Mormon guys" table at the company holiday party 2 years in a row and noticing nobody really came over to chat or socialize which was weird because it happened in the office. It wasn't until I got a new job after my faith transition where nobody knew my history with Mormonism that it was able to understand the weird dynamic at play.

Since the faith crisis, attending happy hours is the best way to get to know people and socialize outside of work. Inside of work, a lot of socialization occurs around the coffee machine in the mornings.

It's night and day different when people at work don't know you're "technically" still a mormon. They treat you differently I've noticed.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Newme
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Re: Infantilization of the mind

Post by Newme » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:47 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 am
slavereeno wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:54 am
I have noticed this too. It's one of the reasons I dislike listening to general conference. It feels so condescending.
I can't handle coming home to find a conference talk playing in the background because of this. When that happens I often just grab the leash and leave again to take the dog on a walk. Usually though, I'm needed in the house and can't get away from the condescending drone.
wtfluff wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:27 pm
If you really think about it, it makes sense. Mormonism literally encourages you to turn much of your decision making over to the church. You're literally taught NOT TO THINK about many, many things. The "shelf" metaphor fits right into this: When you hear something that causes you any sort of cognitive dissonance, you literally stop yourself from "thinking about it" and compartmentalize it (put it on your shelf) and move on.
Newme wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:24 pm
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:07 pm
This just came to me from another thread, I think the innate desire to have our reasons for unbelief validated by the tribe might be a sign of infantilization. We tie our self worth to what the "parent" figure thinks of us whether that is the church leader, other members, or real parents.
I think the need for authority is a big part of it. Never really growing up is easier - you don’t have to take responsibility - just look to your authorities. The problem is that they look to them as if gods - infallible. And like children who are in denial of the dysfunctional aspects of their parents (because that’s all they know), when presented with undeniable problems, they seem inable to comprehend, no matter what college degree they have.
Very much this. We are taught not to think too deeply. The same surface level lessons are repeated ad nauseam. LDS gospel discussions are the very definition of platitudes....

plat·i·tude
/ˈpladəˌt(y)o͞od/
noun
a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful.

But we can't go past that surface level without delving into the forbidden realm of anti-mormon material, just a few paragraphs of which wields such great power as to destroy a testimony which has been carefully curated for decades.

Is this what God wants for his children? We are Gods in embryo right? We're meant to become universal architects ourselves right? How do we do that if we're not allowed to use our own brains? Or are our future God-selves expected to continue to follow the program and pattern that has been laid out since before we emerged from the great unlimited glob of "intelligence(s)" without any thought or initiative of our own involved?
This reminds me of this video I just watched... kinda long so I’ll sum it up.
This guy is talking about religion in general, but I could relate.
  • *Religious leaders make followers more dependent & focused on them rather than God and Christ. They program folowers’ minds & most never question it.
    *Religious people shy away from psych-ology because corrupted Christianity isn’t compatible. They fear the mind & distract from the one way of healing and entering “the kingdom of God.”
    *Subconscious controls about 90%, conscious: 10%. Tithe represents giving that 10% to God, through meditation.
    *(About 42:00) Christ wasn’t self-serving like religious leaders - but said, “YOU are the lightbof the world... don’t worship me - go within to experience the kingdom of God within you.”
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwWy5iJFEcg#

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