The Covenant Hand?

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Mormorrisey
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The Covenant Hand?

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:39 am

Has anybody caught this on reddit? Some kid made a recording of Oaks coming in to a group of youth and telling them all to take the sacrament with the right hand:

https://youtu.be/d0siBml8crY

Of all the pearls of wisdom you could have given a group of impressionable youth, and this is the best you've got?

As a side note, some years ago I was given heck by an old white dude in the ward for taking the sacrament with my left hand, so now I consciously became a switch hitter when taking the sacrament. Not always with the left to be rebellious, but I mix it up to show how little I care for stupid, pharasitical rules like this. Unwritten order of things, yo!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

aoirselvar
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by aoirselvar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:45 am

These youth are dealing with some serious shit and a representative of God has a chance to share something that could profoundly change their life. And... wait what?!?


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jfro18
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by jfro18 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:55 am

As a lefty I must say this is as stupid as saying gay people choose to be evil.

Thankfully my parents didn't force me to be a right handed kid or I would've never known the pain of pens smudging and notebooks being designed against me my whole life. :lol:

Reuben
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by Reuben » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:57 am

Mormonism: Putting the Old Testament back into Christianity since 1830.

Mormonism: Unfulfilling the Law of Moses, one vain little rule at a time.

I can't help imagining Jesus rebelling against this by taking the sacrament with his left foot.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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crossmyheart
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by crossmyheart » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:19 am

I remember being taught this at one point. I had a strong case of scrupulocity when I was younger- so I absolutely would not touch the sacrament with my left hand, ever.

Now? I usually skip the bread and take the water. Just to mess with people- they cant decide if I am a sinner or not.

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nibbler
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by nibbler » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:27 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:39 am
Of all the pearls of wisdom you could have given a group of impressionable youth, and this is the best you've got?
I think this goes beyond the opportunity cost of giving youth instruction that could benefit their lives. Oaks didn't just pass on an opportunity to pass on a pearl of wisdom, he took his opportunity to find fault.

Like crossmyheart, I had a serious case of scrupulosity when I was an orthodox member. An apostle of Jesus Christ coming down, noticing that I took the sacrament with my left hand, and then publicly calling me out on it would have been devastating.

So no, for me it's not a simple case of misplaced priority, it's a case of abusive behavior. Reprimanding children. Over something that does. not. matter.

Oaks also set an example for all the righteousness police. It's pharisaical to the core.

I get the feeling that's just how Oaks is wired though. He's the guy in charge in that situation and everyone is looking towards him, he's got to make some show of his authority. He grasps at straws for a bit, then finally lands on calling out people for interacting with the sacrament with their left hand, regardless of whether he actually saw someone use their left hand. In the end it's just a power play to remind people he's in charge. That's what he believes people in charge do, correct others.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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2bizE
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by 2bizE » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:36 am

I find this so stupid. This is my number one pet peeve: mormon people making $hit up and expecting everyone else to follow. And getting mad if they don’t.

I listened to the audio and in it Oaks talks about how as part of the ordinance of baptism, they raise their arm to the square. The priests also used to do the arm to the square sign for the sacrament, but quit several years ago (example of an ordinance changing). It felt like Oaks was going to say that about the sacrament, but decided to use the baptism as an example.
There are too many OCD Q15.

Oh, let me add this. The right hand cleanliness thing comes from olden days and third world countries where people maintained a clean hand (right) and wiped their butt with the left. Where hygiene isn’t great, this is what they did.
~2bizE

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Linked
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by Linked » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:48 am

crossmyheart wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:19 am
Now? I usually skip the bread and take the water. Just to mess with people- they cant decide if I am a sinner or not.
Hahaha, that is fantastic! Reminds me of the guy I know with a big BYU tattoo.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Just This Guy
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:23 pm

Someone needs to do a tattoo of this:

Utah: 34
BYU: 31
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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RubinHighlander
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 pm

That's what I was taught and taught my kids as a TBM; it's one of those true unwritten order of things BS. You can see how far the church takes this, especially at the local level, when you see the evolution of the white shirt and tie, the exact marching orders of the deacons passing the sacrament (like it's some sort of marine military academy ceremony), the switching of the robes in the temple. I think this militaristic marching to the beat of the same drum is not just correlation, but the male leadership getting off on a militaristic style of management over the TBM population.

A lot of the locals just make shiz up as well. I remember on bishop that insisted a male priesthood holder must open the sacrament meeting with prayer. That guy is probably sorely disappointed the women no longer have to veil their faces in the temple and make a covenant with their husbands.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Kishkumen
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by Kishkumen » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:07 pm

Now we know one more piece of the puzzle for our march toward perfection

Or how to be as perfect as we know how.
  • White Caucasian
    Male
    Mormon
    American (preferrably West Coast)
    Heterosexual (polygamist exception may apply)
    Upper middle class or better
    Right-handed

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:14 pm

Not a cult...


Not a cult...


Not a cult...


...right?

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Red Ryder
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Mormonism... so focused on the minutia, the big picture gets overlooked!

Ex-Mormonism... so focused on the Mormonism minutia, living life gets overlooked!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

dogbite
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by dogbite » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Oh, this is old old thinking all the way back to the Latin dexter and sinister. Just from thise words can you guess which is the left hand.

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slavereeno
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by slavereeno » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:46 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:46 pm
Ex-Mormonism... so focused on the Mormonism minutia, living life gets overlooked!
I bear my testimony that what RR says is true.

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deacon blues
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by deacon blues » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:50 pm

I hope there were’t any one armed kids in the audience. They might have had some’splaing to do
God is Love. God is Truth

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wtfluff
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:15 pm

I remember one of my parents making a big deal about how important the right hand was when it comes to the temple ceremony, like it was one of those super-secret things only mormons knew.

I didn't really question it, except for the "What The Fluff?" I was asking myself in my head. :?


Once again, mormonism (Dallin F. Oaks) really teaches no real life skills, nothing about reality; just useless pablum.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by MalcolmVillager » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:31 pm

I heard if you use your left hand it almost feels like it's someone else . . . Oh wait. I guess I thought you were talking about something else.

Yeah, I always heard the right hand was the covenant hand. I was a pretty judgmental YM seeing all those careless member flippantly using their sinister hands for something so sacred.

Bwahahaha

Seriously though. W THE A F!!!!!

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DPRoberts
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Re: The Covenant Hand?

Post by DPRoberts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:14 pm

nibbler wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:27 am
Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:39 am
Of all the pearls of wisdom you could have given a group of impressionable youth, and this is the best you've got?
I think this goes beyond the opportunity cost of giving youth instruction that could benefit their lives. Oaks didn't just pass on an opportunity to pass on a pearl of wisdom, he took his opportunity to find fault.

. . .

Oaks also set an example for all the righteousness police. It's pharisaical to the core.

I get the feeling that's just how Oaks is wired though. He's the guy in charge in that situation and everyone is looking towards him, he's got to make some show of his authority. He grasps at straws for a bit, then finally lands on calling out people for interacting with the sacrament with their left hand, regardless of whether he actually saw someone use their left hand. In the end it's just a power play to remind people he's in charge. That's what he believes people in charge do, correct others.
I think fault finding may be his raison d'être. I was teaching 12 and 13-year-olds in Sunday School over 20 years ago when Lord Oaks showed up unannounced in the class. As it turned out, that was probably the week I was the least prepared and had to just wing it from the manual.

His Loftiness visited a few more classes in the ward and did not say anything critical at the time. However in a conference talk that followed thereafter he mentioned doing these drop-in visits and pontificated on how the quality of gospel instruction in our meetings needed to improve. So fault finding has been his modus operandi for quite a while.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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