What’s the difference...

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Somegirl
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What’s the difference...

Post by Somegirl » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:11 pm

Between blessing of a child (or putting the name on the record of the church) vs baptism in the eyes of the church? I know that once a person has been baptized they are a member, but how does that differ from just being on the records? My sister’s kids haven’t been baptized, but were put on the records (no blessing either, a family member put their names on the records), and the primary has been reaching out to the kids. My sister has put a stop to that, but if they aren’t even members of the church, and they are underage, why do you think it’s acceptable in the eyes of the church for them to be contacted without parent involvement/permission? Thoughts?

Kishkumen
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Kishkumen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:17 pm

Baptism is not member enrollment. It's the end of the free trial period.

You will be automatically enrolled* and billed at the normal monthly rate if you do not cancel in writing before the end of the free trial period. Consult your legal counsel to comply with local regulations.

*Certain restrictions may apply

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wtfluff
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by wtfluff » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:02 pm

Somegirl wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:11 pm
... why do you think it’s acceptable in the eyes of the church for them to be contacted without parent involvement/permission? Thoughts?
"Acceptable" doesn't really matter when it comes to LDS-Inc.

Those kids are considered "children of record." Basically they are unbaptized members. "The church" has their information, and thinks that any and all contact is perfectly fine.

I know that there have been issues in the past with getting these children's "records" removed, but I think Quitmormon has made some headway with this recently if there is interest on your sister's part in getting the kids' names removed, have her contact them.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

Somegirl
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 10:54 am

Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Somegirl » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:27 pm

So you are saying there is no difference other than just they start paying dues at baptism?

Thanks for the insight. They basically just don’t have boundaries, do they? My sister did submit to quit Mormon, so she’s just waiting for confirmation that it’s all done with. I’m considering doing the same with my kids’ names, but haven’t decided for sure. My kids are on the records as well, but I came to my senses before any of them got baptized. However, I don’t think they will be left alone just because they’re not “official members”...

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RubinHighlander
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Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: What’s the difference...

Post by RubinHighlander » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:28 pm

Somegirl wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:11 pm
Between blessing of a child (or putting the name on the record of the church) vs baptism in the eyes of the church? I know that once a person has been baptized they are a member, but how does that differ from just being on the records? My sister’s kids haven’t been baptized, but were put on the records (no blessing either, a family member put their names on the records), and the primary has been reaching out to the kids. My sister has put a stop to that, but if they aren’t even members of the church, and they are underage, why do you think it’s acceptable in the eyes of the church for them to be contacted without parent involvement/permission? Thoughts?
The COB has a lot of interest in children of record, it's one of the biggest sectors of their potential growth. With those names on the books they can go to work at the local level to befriend and recruit the "less actives" to primary or whatever age group they are in. The membership/record removal thing is an interesting issue I've never thought about. I think the advice to contact quitmormon.com is what I'd also recommend. That attorney has the most experience with resignations and likely has a form letter that can be used to submit to the COB for removal and the service is free.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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2bizE
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by 2bizE » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Sounds like a lawsuit. Didn’t Wells Fargo do that by creating accounts that people didn’t ask for?
~2bizE

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Raylan Givens
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Raylan Givens » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:37 pm

My two kids are in the same boat.
-not blessed
-not sealed (since they are adopted)
-not baptized

I think my daughter's name is spelled incorrectly. From what I understand, when the kids turn 18. They drop off the records.

Annoying, but I get it. My kids went to primary for awhile. So that is how they got on the records.
"Ah, you know, I think you use the Bible to do whatever the hell you like" - Raylan Givens

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Hagoth
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Hagoth » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:18 pm

Somegirl wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:11 pm
... but if they aren’t even members of the church, and they are underage, why do you think it’s acceptable in the eyes of the church for them to be contacted without parent involvement/permission?
It's kind of like Betelgeuse, if you have their name you might be able to make them do your bidding.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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alas
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by alas » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:59 am

Somegirl wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:11 pm
... but if they aren’t even members of the church, and they are underage, why do you think it’s acceptable in the eyes of the church for them to be contacted without parent involvement/permission?

I actually don’t think it is alright to be contacting minors without parental permission. But it is like getting your name removed from the records used to be. It is probably illegal, but as long as the church gets away with it they keep doing it. It takes someone with enough anger, enough cash, and enough know how to hire a lawyer and sue the church. Once they get hit hard in the pocket book, they change to respect the rights of something besides themselves.

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Culper Jr.
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Culper Jr. » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:43 pm

We've had a lot of problems with this in our ward, where little kids go to church with grandma who is a member and they get on the records that way. They'll sometimes create a record in order to get a count in primary. While there are leaders who will make a concerted effort to baptize and reactivate them, most of the time no one knows who the kids are and they are part of a mass contacting effort or they popped up on some list.

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Raylan Givens
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Re: What’s the difference...

Post by Raylan Givens » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:50 pm

Culper Jr. wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:43 pm
We've had a lot of problems with this in our ward, where little kids go to church with grandma who is a member and they get on the records that way. They'll sometimes create a record in order to get a count in primary. While there are leaders who will make a concerted effort to baptize and reactivate them, most of the time no one knows who the kids are and they are part of a mass contacting effort or they popped up on some list.
As a missionary, this was the goldmine we would go after. I remember baptizing a few teenagers this way.
"Ah, you know, I think you use the Bible to do whatever the hell you like" - Raylan Givens

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