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Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:31 pm
by Random
Sheamus Moore wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:18 am
I'm shocked, Hagoth, that you would talk about an experience so sacred...
Your comment fits perfectly with your present avatar.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:34 pm
by Random
Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:00 am
Then it occurred to me that it doesn't really matter who or what, or if, God is. He (I'll stick to that convention) could be a guy on a throne, or a formless omnipresent cosmic force, or an evolutionary cognitive process that resides fully within our brains. We have no say in the matter regardless of what we want, expect, or have been indoctrinated to believe about God. It is what it is. We might as well unclench our fists and sphincters and be open to any possibility. All of a sudden I started feeling "the spirit" (i.e. elevation emotion). I bought my coffee and found a place to sit where the sun was at my back and I was looking out the window at the mountains. The spiritual feeling kept getting stronger and when the caffeine hit my brain it turned the knob up to 11, probably stronger than I ever felt it in my entire Mormonhood. I couldn't find and apparent reason for this, beyond my thought about letting go of everything and just being open to whatever. This went on for another hour and a half. I just sat there and soaked it up. There was no sense of being in communication with a celestial mind or anything like that, just an overwhelming feeling of pure joy and connection with the universe and my own brain.
I really think there's a good chance you experienced God, or the effects of God. We humans think we know so much about realms we really know very little to nothing about.
I wonder what kind of understanding we'd have if we let go of all we think we know about who or what God is and just let God be God.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:12 am
by Hagoth
Random wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:34 pm
I wonder what kind of understanding we'd have if we let go of all we think we know about who or what God is and just let God be God.
I can accept that, with the caveat that God is an experience, not a person.
I can also agree with Dawkin's characterization Pantheism as sexed-up atheism, to a large extent. Neither believes in supernatural beings and metaphysical forces. At the same time there are plenty of atheists who experience what others recognize as "spiritual" experiences, so if you look at it from the other direction you might say that their brand of atheism is truncated Pantheism.
I think it's good to remember that everyone is atheistic about most gods. I also think we are all agnostic. No matter how adamantly someone claims they know God exists the only really believe God exists to varied degrees of commitment. Any "knowledge" we have comes from mental/emotional phenomena. Anything we believe we experience outside of our own skulls might be hallucination or misinterpretation (see my comment in the Jim Benson thread about the "Miracle of the Christmas Poo." We can believe very strongly, but we can't really know.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:57 am
by Reuben
Well, we can think we know.
Anyway, this article I just read is relevant:
https://www.thecut.com/article/what-a-t ... means.html
I think "really means" might be overclaiming. It does discuss some recent research, though, some of which has informed my views on this topic since last year.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:34 am
by RubinHighlander
Reuben wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:57 am
Well, we can think we know.
Anyway, this article I just read is relevant:
https://www.thecut.com/article/what-a-t ... means.html
I think "really means" might be overclaiming. It does discuss some recent research, though, some of which has informed my views on this topic since last year.
Thanks for posting that link Reuben. I really enjoyed that article. I have plans soon to explore a deeper transcendent experience for myself; I've been reading a lot about them and talking to people who have experienced them. I have enjoyed many transcendent experiences out in nature doing landscape photography but I want to explore more of what is going on inside my own brain.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:17 pm
by Hagoth
Just a few months ago the FDA declared psilocybin a "breakthrough therapy." That's huge.
I would just like to point out that the experience I mentioned in the original post involved no chemicals besides caffeine.
That said, without getting too personal, I applaud the FDA for this declaration and I would love to see some sort of ecumenical council declare it a "breakthrough mystical experience." For many people this is a positive transformative experience that they rate among the most significant of their lives. I guess there's no chance in hell that the LDS church will ever condone people having a Kirtland dedication-like experience. The past is a foreign country...
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:53 am
by Newme
Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:12 am
Random wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:34 pm
I wonder what kind of understanding we'd have if we let go of all we think we know about who or what God is and just let God be God.
I can accept that, with the caveat that God is an experience, not a person.
I can also agree with Dawkin's characterization Pantheism as sexed-up atheism, to a large extent. Neither believes in supernatural beings and metaphysical forces. At the same time there are plenty of atheists who experience what others recognize as "spiritual" experiences, so if you look at it from the other direction you might say that their brand of atheism is truncated Pantheism.
I think it's good to remember that everyone is atheistic about most gods. I also think we are all agnostic. No matter how adamantly someone claims they know God exists the only really believe God exists to varied degrees of commitment. Any "knowledge" we have comes from mental/emotional phenomena. Anything we believe we experience outside of our own skulls might be hallucination or misinterpretation (see my comment in the Jim Benson thread about the "Miracle of the Christmas Poo." We can believe very strongly, but we can't really know.
I agree. And good points about how everyone is atheist to some gods, and considering the subjective & limited awareness as part of being human, we all are somewhat agnostic.
I believe that health is complex & besides diet, exercise, sleep etc., thoughts also affect us physiologically. So, when I had a stiff neck that persisted despite stretching & massage, I looked up the possible metaphysical cause - not considering other viewpoints. I had been really upset with some people and tried considering more compassionate perspectives of why they’ve acted as they have. A thought came that they seem to believe in a dysfunctional idea of god that is powerless compared to their baggage - their pasts and deep emotional pain. The next day, my neck was better.
But this has me thinking that God is as unique as the person considering God. And psych-ology (study of the soul) is inseparable to spirituality.
Re: Unexpected and Unsolicited Spiritual Experience
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:04 pm
by Random
Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:12 am
Random wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:34 pm
I wonder what kind of understanding we'd have if we let go of all we think we know about who or what God is and just let God be God.
I can accept that, with the caveat that God is an experience, not a person.
Yes, what I meant included that. Let God be what he/she/it is, whatever that is.