"Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

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Linked
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"Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Linked » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:00 am

I got this question from my 8 year old yesterday as we were walking home from church together. Unfortunately I got a bit defensive and said that I stay most of the time, in fact we were walking home together after I had stayed and helped teach his primary class. After the pedantics were taken care of this conversation followed:

Me: I don't like going to my class. I would rather come home and work on stuff or play video games. Why do you stay after sacrament meeting every week?

Him: Because I have to.

TBM DW heard the conversation. We will see if it leads to her clamping down, or supports me bringing the kids home with me sometimes.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Corsair
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Corsair » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:10 am

Believers are really touchy about this because they know that if children are given a choice between church and "anything else" then the church loses. It doesn't have to be a choice between church and some hedonistic pleasure like staying home with video games and pizza. It could be an enjoyable hike outside with family. It could be watching a historical documentary or quietly reading. An LDS church service is unpleasant in ways that the institutional church barely comprehends.

Think of the temple open house events you have attended. I will grant that a temple open house is actually one of the best things that the LDS church actually supports that improves relations with non-believers. But when you go on that tour, it's not a case of getting to ask questions about what really goes on inside the temple. The earnest temple tour guides want you to keep your questions until the end when you are out of the temple.

The true hope is that the non-believer will be overcome with the spirit of the building and want to get baptized. The church hopes that the opulent furnishings will make people want to be part of this church and not wonder why this extravagent, pimped out building costs so much and there is no actual Christian charity for the poor involved.

The average LDS sacrament service is much the same. Your believing wife and the ward leaders are hoping that the spirit of the sacrament service will touch the heart of your children. Being quiet, attentive, and obedient is the goal. Providing a chance to ask substantive questions or address immediate needs is not on the agenda.

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græy
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by græy » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:14 am

Corsair wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:10 am
Believers are really touchy about this because they know that if children are given a choice between church and "anything else" then the church loses. It doesn't have to be a choice between church and some hedonistic pleasure like staying home with video games and pizza. It could be an enjoyable hike outside with family. It could be watching a historical documentary or quietly reading. An LDS church service is unpleasant in ways that the institutional church barely comprehends.
And yet we continue to be told, "Going to church makes us so happy!" No, Karen*. No it does not.

*DW's name is not Karen.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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wtfluff
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by wtfluff » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:32 pm

I think I would have a hard time in this situation keeping my mouth shut and not blurting out: "Church sucks."

I distinctly remember in the midst of my finding out the truth about LD$-Inc. during one of the fights to get my younger kids ready for church when my son said: "Church is boring" with much emphasis on the word boring. I somehow thought about the statement for an instant before providing LD$-Inc. platitudes, and thought to myself: "I can't argue with that." Then we proceeded to continue getting ready for "church" and went to enjoy the boredom. :?

I guess the previous slightly coherent paragraph is explaining that one of my other answers to the question would likely be: "Church is boring."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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alas
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by alas » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:00 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:14 am
Corsair wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:10 am
Believers are really touchy about this because they know that if children are given a choice between church and "anything else" then the church loses. It doesn't have to be a choice between church and some hedonistic pleasure like staying home with video games and pizza. It could be an enjoyable hike outside with family. It could be watching a historical documentary or quietly reading. An LDS church service is unpleasant in ways that the institutional church barely comprehends.
And yet we continue to be told, "Going to church makes us so happy!" No, Karen*. No it does not.

*DW's name is not Karen.
Even 50 years ago when church was not quite so mind sucking lay boring, my mother gave us the choice between going to church and doing the dishes (not breakfast dishes, but the dishes that had piled up all weekend, took two hours or so) or cooking lunch and cleaning the kitchen and we would frequently pick staying home to do the house work.

dogbite
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by dogbite » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:02 pm

you know, i think it was just as bad or worse 50 years ago. i didn't like church any more as a 4 year old than i do now. Mid week primary was terrible, stultifyingly stupid content. the 3 separarte meetings were awful and interminable. I hated the primary programs as a kid. i have no interest in performing but did i get a choice? Sacrament meeting didnt get out until 6 PM. Fast Sundays were terrible as a kid.

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Hagoth
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Hagoth » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:23 am

After I reached the point that I could no longer force myself sit through all of the meetings I used to get the occasional "we sure miss you, brother," from members of the quorum. Then one Sunday one of the High Priest group counselors (or whatever they were called) stopped me in the hall on my way out and asked me point blank why I don't stay for priesthood meeting. I shook his hand and smiled and said, "because I don't like it." I don't believe anyone has bothered me about it since. I kind of enjoy seeing that expression when you just say no and they don't know how to react.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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hmb
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by hmb » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:39 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:23 am
After I reached the point that I could no longer force myself sit through all of the meetings I used to get the occasional "we sure miss you, brother," from members of the quorum. Then one Sunday one of the High Priest group counselors (or whatever they were called) stopped me in the hall on my way out and asked me point blank why I don't stay for priesthood meeting. I shook his hand and smiled and said, "because I don't like it." I don't believe anyone has bothered me about it since. I kind of enjoy seeing that expression when you just say no and they don't know how to react.
Hahaha. I'm sure he agrees. When callings are fulfilled at the last minute, and/or with crappy effort, it says,"I DON'T WANT TO BE DOING THIS." But...obedience. Most lessons are meh, much of the ministering stuff is very last minute, and people are too busy to help when requested. People are tired. I never thought I was happy, and I doubt a lot of TBMs are happy. You complete that expected thing and you feel some relief, but there's always more, and you are never good enough.

I love your honest response. It's a mouth-clamper. What are they going to do? Hahahaha.

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Random
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Random » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 pm

I liked Fast Sundays best, as far as sacrament meetings go, because so many different people talked, it was easier to endure. Plus, some were very short, and occasionally, you'd get one that was interesting.

[edited to add: That was when I was a kid. When I got old enough to feel pressured by the long pauses in F&T Meeting, it was a little more stressful.]

I did like midweek primary, though. I don't remember much about it, but I do know that church was a safe haven, where school and home were not so much (home was safer than school).
dogbite wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:02 pm
you know, i think it was just as bad or worse 50 years ago. i didn't like church any more as a 4 year old than i do now. Mid week primary was terrible, stultifyingly stupid content. the 3 separarte meetings were awful and interminable. I hated the primary programs as a kid. i have no interest in performing but did i get a choice? Sacrament meeting didnt get out until 6 PM. Fast Sundays were terrible as a kid.
Last edited by Random on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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Random
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Random » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:51 pm

When my son was somewhere around 10, I told him he didn't have to go to primary. The drive home was probably 25-30 minutes, so it wasn't like he could just walk home. Unfortunately, the primary president was a vigilante, considering herself legally responsible for making the kids go to primary. And even a nonmember teenager tried to force my son to go to primary. I told my son to lock himself in the car.

Yeah, I didn't have the guts to stand up to the pp and say, "I told ds he didn't have to go to primary." I cringe now at the fear level I had then.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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Random
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Re: "Why do you always leave after Sacrament Meeting?"

Post by Random » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 pm

Same kid asked me, when he was quite young, when he could stop going to church (like you stop going to school at 18). Being the good little tbm, I said, "Never."

He stopped going for the most part when he was about 13 1/2. Went a few times after that, but completely stopped going (as far as I know) around the age of 16.

And now look at us. Neither myself nor any of my children go to their services. DS does not consider himself LDS last I knew, but he is the only one who has not resigned. Their father (who died when DS was 13 1/2) would turn over in his grave to know that I and 2 of his kids had resigned and the other considered himself nonMormon.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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