What's left in your transition?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Red Ryder
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What's left in your transition?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:30 pm

I often think about my faith transition in terms of accomplishments and things left to do.

Accomplishments:
Knowledge - I've probably learned more about Mormonism, Joseph Smith, and early church history than I ever would as an active ignorant TBM. I can probably say the same about anti Mormonism and it's cast of shady characters, false assumptions, and weak arguments against the church. I'm talking about the Ed Decker and the Godmakers type of stuff. I've learned more from ex-Mormons than antis. They are not the same.

Fully dismantled my testimony - This took time as I read and devoured both sides of the numerous issues before the CES Letter ever came along. As patterns of institutional dishonesty, corporate greed, and everlasting nepotism continued to pop up, my testimony withered and died. I wish it would have just evaporated like many experience today.

Stopped paying tithing - This happened for the obvious reasons but two distinct thoughts came to mind. The first being that I quickly saw a pattern emerge where I could see his tithing bound members to the church through struggle and pressure to be righteous enough to receive financial blessings. The second was the pattern of cover up of sexual abuse through the use of large financial payments in order to lock in non disclosure agreements and out of court settlements. I could no longer donate in good conscious. Not even small donations to cover the cost of my attendance. I figured I've paid enough and those donations will generate interest and realized gains long enough to cover my footprint in any LDS building for the rest of time and eternity.

Stopped wearing garments - this by far was the best decision I ever made. I'm no longer shackled by the underwear guilt and the instructions to wear it. Choosing your own underwear is simply a human right that shouldn't ever be taken away by religious beliefs. Ever.

Stopped caring what people think about me - this is the second best thing I've figured out. I don't care what ward members think. I don't care what they say. I don't care about their looks of pity. The joke is in them. I've awakened and know they are deceived.

What's left to do:

Stop attending - this one might take a little longer. I go to support the wife and sit by my family. It's a bonding experience that would still occur if I was catholic or some other religion. Once the kids are grown I will stop.

Stop reading online Mormonism - I'm still trying to identify the draw and addiction to talking about Mormonism online. It's so damn interesting to see people awaken and go through the process of discovery and faith transition. Some are slow and emotionally painful. Others are a train wreck. Every exit story is unique and open ended. Everyone needs some kind of support.

Find my identity - by far this is the most difficult aspect of this journey. The church gave me purpose, identity, and a life path. Now it's up to me to replace what's been left by losing belief. It's a humbling experience to start over.

What's left in your journey?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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græy
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by græy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:20 pm

I've only accomplished the first two. I'm trying to figure a way/place/time to open the conversation about tithing and garments with DW, but it is complicated and I'm a coward.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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DPRoberts
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by DPRoberts » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Let's see
Knowledge - check. I found real history to be more fascinating and relatable than the whitewashed fairy tale.
Testimony dismantled - check.
Stopped paying tithing - check.
Garments - mix and match with Gentile. Toss the former without replacing as they wear out.
Not sure I ever cared that much what others think, but I am probably somewhat self-deluded about this.

Still to do
Attendance - would like it to be my choice whether or not I attend. Wish TSCC would emphasize community more as that is the only area where I find value.
Internet Mormonism - still here. I wonder whether there is something pathological about the time I spend here and elsewhere.
My identity - the church stole that with my complicity. There are parts that could have developed had I more choices early on. But the sad truth is that none of us have enough time to fully discover who were are through our choices. Still working on this.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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alas
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by alas » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:13 pm

This is an interesting thought process.

I don’t know that I ever was a full believing type member. I grew up with such big shelf items that I never could say, “I believe.” I never really accepted the Joseph Smith as “glorious prophet of the restoration,” but I was a loyal and devoted tribe member. During 20 years while my spouse an was active duty military and we moved through 12 different duty assignments, two overseas, I needed the instant social group of the church. Even if I was less than a believer, I was not a DISbeliever. I am not sure how to define the middle ground I occupied, other than I felt the church was more good than bad and I needed it. I didn’t want to examine what I really believed because I knew exactly where that would go and I was firmly Christian and figured worshipping with hubby in the church he believed in was good enough. When I went inactive a couple of times, I really missed being able to meet with others to worship Christ, even if the worship of Joseph Smith made me crazy.

So, where am I in my disaffection?

I lived for about 30 years as semi believing loyal tribe member. I had slowly examined what I DO believe and Mormonism just wasn’t it. The belief part of it was a slow process, but still the easy part. I was just Christian, not Mormon belief wise for a long time when I was still a loyal tribe member.

Then several things came together about the same time. I won’t go into the trigger, but years of frustration came together at the same time. I couldn’t stand my tribe any longer.

So, although the steps are listed separate, I kind of went through them all at once.

The biggest step in my whole journey was deciding that the church is not good, but was emotionally abusive, especially to women. It uses a lot of shame and guilt and encourages judgementalism in the members of others members. It shames normal sexual feelings. It shames female bodies for being sexual. It uses gaslighting. It lies about its history. And on and on and on.

This was my turning point from thinking the church was as good of a place to worship Christ as other churches. It just wasn’t worshipping Christ, at least not the Jesus of the New Testament, but worshipped “prophets, seers, and revelators.”

I had also been struggling for a long time fitting in socially in Utah. The Utah culture is more fundamentalist and stricter on looking down on feminists, liberals, progressives, Democrats. So, while the church had worked for me well for 20 years while we moved from Germany to Florida to Texas, it just was not working once we settled in Lalaland. So, the other thing holding me to the church was the social connection and I decided that just wasn’t working.

So, all at once I went through all the disconnecting from the church and I joined NOM and told spouseman I didn’t believe, went inactive and threw away temple garments. Spouseman wasn’t even surprised. It was more of a giving up on an obnoxious tribe than a change of belief.



The things I have not done are find a new place to worship and new social group. But then I waffle on whether or not I even want either. The church kind of soured me on trying to be “in” a social group In Utah. Too many Republican, tRump supporters, sell Southern Utah to oil development. I do have a social group, if I wanted to be social but I am standoffish and keep to myself, kind of unsocial. I have not found a place (group) to worship Christ because there isn’t much to choose from where we live that is better than being out in nature.

As far as stopping the constant discussion of things Mormon, .... hmmmm. I am still on NOM and read some of the believing blogs, mostly about feminist issues. I have quit searching history and feel quite settled as to where I am at. I think my interest in discussing Mormonism is to see where it is going.

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wtfluff
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:00 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:30 pm
What's left in your journey?
Death.

No, really. I've come to the conclusion that my "transition" through mormonism will end when I die. (I hope I'm wrong.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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jfro18
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:42 am

This is a really good thread although thinking about it in these terms is kind of depressing to me. :lol:

I left the church years ago - I had a hard time with polygamy and the treatment of blacks. At the time I did not do ANY research into church history, but I knew that polygamy was awful and I knew my wife would be miserable if she had to live with it.

Then when I went to the temple I could not shake how 'culty' the church felt, and when the old man touched my naked body (including on the upper thigh which was where I think I emotionally shut down), I was mentally on the other side... it took a few years before I left, but that was the end of me being able to square it up with myself.

I think alas hit on one of the biggest points - this church is not better than any other church and in my opinion causes more harm than most churches do. So instead of me looking at 'does it do more good than harm,' I look at it as 'Even if you think it does do more good than harm, it's still doing less good than most churches that require a lot less.' In addition, the prophet/leader worship is grotesque and you see it every time you read comments on a church post or if you get people to talk about going to see a GA/prophet in person. It's really, really triggering to me, especially now but even then.

So for me... I think what's left for me is trying to let go of the life I would love to have with my wife. I'm mentally OK not being Mormon and I'm mentally OK not needing to know more about what God may or may not be.

But knowing that I have a kid who DW wants to raise in the church even though she refuses to discuss the problems is going to be a battle that I assume will flare up forever... and then my relationship with DW has suffered because of the church and will continue to suffer because of how the church puts that gigantic gap between families when everyone's not on the same page.

So in a lot of ways... what's left for my transition is trying to find peace knowing that my relationship with my family will never be what it was unless by some chance down the road DW is open to talking about this stuff. That's something I still can't quite do when my kid is in the middle of it.

You can leave the church, but it will never leave you alone unless you're lucky enough to have your family leave with you. Even then you have extended family/community, but that's easier to deal with than the family you spend every day with.

In some ways wtfluff is right... the only thing left is death. :lol: :cry:

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Hagoth
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:01 pm

I have more or less stopped thinking of it as a transition. I'm just wandering my own path and I keep bumping into Mormonism. I choose to stay attached to a degree because it is fascinating in so many ways, and because my wife is happier if I show some support for her.

Mormonism as a faith tradition has grown smaller and smaller in my consciousness, while Mormonism as a curiosity/hobby tends to wax and wane.

I think the biggest attachment I still have is garments but I really just think of them as underwear and I tend to spend as little time as possible thinking and caring about underwear.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:16 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:00 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:30 pm
What's left in your journey?
Death.

No, really. I've come to the conclusion that my "transition" through mormonism will end when I die. (I hope I'm wrong.)
I'm down to getting the official letter back from the COB to acknowledge my resignation. Next up would be death. I guess there are and always will be anger issues with the COB messing up Utah politics and active family members I have to contend with, so it's cathartic to keep up on the goings ons here behind the Zion curtain. DW and I were talking the other day how we would totally move out of state to a much less mormoney place if work and family made that easier. But death will be the final thing that allows me complete oblivion or meet the maker or something else. I'm not ruling anything out 100% but I will say if it's the Mormon God and his boy wonder, I'll be really pissed off and they will have some splainin to do!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

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Linked
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by Linked » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:39 pm

Good thread, it is an interesting way to think of my journey away from mormonism.

I have:
- Deconstructed my mormon belief system (probably 98% complete, I don't know if it can ever be fully deconstructed)
- Gotten comfortable with my new belief system
- Removed the mormon restrictions from my information/media consumption
- Stopped paying tithing. I paid as a closeted unbeliever for 2 years, but I just couldn't pay anymore once my wife found out and I didn't have the pressure to play along for her.
- Made it halfway through removing garments, I am phasing them out, just need to find some comfy undershirts
- Reduced church attendance

I haven't:
- Stopped attending. I attend because I think it brings my family together. I hope to be able to offer to let my sons skip class whenever I do as they get older.
- Found a place I am happy with in my mixed faith marriage. Things aren't on fire, but it is not a peaceful situation.
- Tried to deconvert anyone, though I have been a friendly ear for a close friend who went through a faith transition.
- Found something to make up for the feeling that my close TBM family and friends have lost all respect for me and my opinion.
- Had a drink of coffee or alcohol with DW.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

larecherche
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by larecherche » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:49 pm

I'm not angry anymore. I don't trust Joseph Smith, but there's no more anger. He taught some good things and some bad things, did some terrible things, and manically jumped from one doctrine to another until it's hard to consistently define anything about Mormonism.

I feel like I've been basically agnostic (yet "active") for several years, and now I'm finally reconstructing my faith. I'm happier with it now than I have ever been in my adult life. I own my faith, and I don't have to believe anything that is not true.

I've decided to follow the WoW, and ignore the WoW. I'm taking care of my body and trying to be healthy, but ignoring the 19th century opinions.

I still have a temple recommend, but I'm thinking about giving it up. Either way, I'm not planning on renewing it.

I still plan on attending with my family, but I'm not promising anything.

I don't know if this middle-way thing will work, but I'm willing to give it a shot. The only alternative for me is to find a new way outside of Mormonism. Right now, I still feel like it's my home, and it's where my family is.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by MerrieMiss » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:24 pm

I have:

Deconstructed my religion and testimony
Become comfortable with unanswered questions about god (apatheistic)
Stopped wearing garments
Stopped attending RS
Told my husband I’m a non-believer

Things I have yet to do:

Drink coffee or tea not in secret
Cook with wine
Buy a pair of shorts
Not attend more frequently – going to church is still the default Sunday activity
Come out to people (in-laws and friends) as a non-believer
Find a way to bridge the gap in my marriage
Leave Mormonism alone

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crossmyheart
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by crossmyheart » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:03 pm

Accomplishments-
No g's
No recommend
No calling
Out to most family
Stable mixed-faith marriage
Dwindling attendance
0 tithing
Adult beverages with DH

What's left-
Full break from attendance
Complete coming out to all family/friends
Moving on


its those last 3 that have me stuck in the middle

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glass shelf
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by glass shelf » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm

I think all that's really left for me is moving on completely, but I'm not sure how to do that because Mormonism shaped so much of who I am.

All in all, I'm in a good place.

-haven't stepped foot in a Mormon church or lived by Mormon rules in years
-everyone who knew I was Mormon knows I'm not now
-lots of people I've met in the last few years have no idea I once was Mormon
-I finished up grad school, and I'm heading into the professional world--a pretty big deal for someone who was once convinced her full worth relied on being the best SAHM and wife possible

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Red Ryder
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:31 pm

glass shelf wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm
-I finished up grad school, and I'm heading into the professional world--a pretty big deal for someone who was once convinced her full worth relied on being the best SAHM and wife possible
Congrats GS!

It seems like yesterday you were just starting the process. I remember your posts talking about it. I'm proud of you!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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glass shelf
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by glass shelf » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:00 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:31 pm
glass shelf wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm
-I finished up grad school, and I'm heading into the professional world--a pretty big deal for someone who was once convinced her full worth relied on being the best SAHM and wife possible
Congrats GS!

It seems like yesterday you were just starting the process. I remember your posts talking about it. I'm proud of you!
Thanks, RR!

It's been 4.5 years since I started! Time has flown since the days of my early shelf crash. I don't know that timing your shelf crash with a plan to return to higher education is the world's best plan, but I'm pretty sure all those deadlines and the positive reinforcement helped me immeasurably.

WdSkate
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by WdSkate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:07 am

I think that it's not a linear checklist but rather a bouncy ball thrown into toilet. When you think you are getting through something and are good for awhile something throws you back into it and you have a new list of issues to work through. A full transition would include healing and as you said finding identity. Both of those things feel obtainable at times and other times you get reminded of how much you are broken.
For my list.
-Throw out all the BOMs on the shelf. Mission scriptures, the set I had growing up etc.
-Throw away the temple bag.
-Reroute the damn Ensign subscription my parents get us each year.
-Uninstall the LDS Tools App from my phone.
-Uninstall Reddit.
This list could get pretty long and all of these show that there is still work to be done.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:19 am

Some interesting responses, and reading them has made me realize something.

Mentally, I'm fully out, while out of necessity being physically in. It's like I'm a walking corpse at church, just putting in my time and making an appearance, all the while going to HC meetings and saying nothing other than the occasional smarta$$ remark. So I literally have no idea where my transition begins or ends at this point. Some days I can handle this religious schizophrenia, while other days I feel I'll crack under the strain. And the oddest things will set me off. I had to teach seminary recently, and just hearing some kid say, "I know that I can trust what prophets say because what they get is directly from the Lord," shook me up a lot. Now granted, the kid is part of Mormon royalty around here, but still. Shook me good.

So there's a lot still to decompress for me, and I don't know if I'll ever get there.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Ghost
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by Ghost » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:54 pm

This is an interesting way to look at things. I've never consciously developed a checklist of behaviors I'd like to change. It's been more the opposite for me, resisting change but experiencing it all the same. Like Richard Dutcher's analogy in his old Mormon Stories interview of drifting slowly but inevitably away in space.
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:30 pm
Find my identity - by far this is the most difficult aspect of this journey. The church gave me purpose, identity, and a life path. Now it's up to me to replace what's been left by losing belief. It's a humbling experience to start over.
I think this is my largest remaining obstacle, too. For me, it's not only finding purpose, but "choosing to believe" that there's purpose to be had that's any more valid than a religious framework.

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redjay
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Re: What's left in your transition?

Post by redjay » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:30 am

Devastate parents.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

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