Don't be a dummy

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Red Ryder
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Don't be a dummy

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:09 pm

Really?

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What happened between 1964 and now?

1964 BYU Homecoming Queen:

Image

...and what happened to the Miss Indian BYU Pageant? Did they all turn W&D?

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“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

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DPRoberts
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by DPRoberts » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:28 pm

Interesting. I have two observations. One is that the current modesty kick was less of a big deal in the early 1960s. Pre sexual revolution perhaps (or else as usual PSRs were slow to catch on).

The problem I have with the first image is the word "dummy". Sure it's clever but it's also insulting. Is this to be SOP going forward, ridiculing alternate points of view? That was a feature of the Renlund dinghy fireside with both the Renlunds taking cheap shots at doubters. Who would Jesus ridicule?
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

misterfake371
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by misterfake371 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:35 pm

I think I see in really small letters that that meme (or mormonad or poster or whatever it's called) was made in July 2001. So... maybe the modesty standards have evolved since 2001.

I mean, 2001 was a different time, and the prophets of that time period were heavily influenced by the culture they were in, and they did the best they could, and statements made back then simply do not reflect the mind of God in 2019, and what's really important is that you have a testimony in the living prophets, preferably the living prophets who are talking right now, about different things... like love, and... the storms of life are less stormy when the light beams of revelatory stuff shines and stuff. (LOL. How am I doing as an apologist?)

In related news, I think the garments are getting smaller.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

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DPRoberts
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by DPRoberts » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 pm

misterfake371 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:35 pm
I think I see in really small letters that that meme (or mormonad or poster or whatever it's called) was made in July 2001. So... maybe the modesty standards have evolved since 2001.
I missed that detail. So insulting the less obedient has been in the culture for a while.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

Reuben
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by Reuben » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:14 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 pm
misterfake371 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:35 pm
I think I see in really small letters that that meme (or mormonad or poster or whatever it's called) was made in July 2001. So... maybe the modesty standards have evolved since 2001.
I missed that detail. So insulting the less obedient has been in the culture for a while.
Looking down on outsiders has been a consistent feature of fundamentalist religion since... like, the dinosaurs. It's always been there, along with using disgust, fear and shame to keep insiders in line.

It works like this. Your religion requires you to believe something that's hard to believe, either because you're surrounded by outsiders, or because it contradicts your senses or the known facts. But you've built your life on it! Outsiders' ideas become scary. You discover that it's easier to look down on them than to be afraid. You recruit your sense of disgust to keep scary ideas out of your head. You beat yourself up internally if the ideas manage to get in. And you turn all of this outward when a loved one seems to be straying.

You also invent more ways to divide the insiders from the outsiders. The better you conform to what's expected of insiders, the more you feel like you belong, and the safer the world seems to be.

This modesty business is more of the same. Good Mormon girls dress like X, and those slutty outsiders dress like Y. Conform and feel comforted.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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nibbler
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by nibbler » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:02 am

misterfake371 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:35 pm
I mean, 2001 was a different time, and the prophets of that time period were heavily influenced by the culture they were in, and they did the best they could, and statements made back then simply do not reflect the mind of God in 2019, and what's really important is that you have a testimony in the living prophets, preferably the living prophets who are talking right now, about different things... like love, and... the storms of life are less stormy when the light beams of revelatory stuff shines and stuff. (LOL. How am I doing as an apologist?)
Sounds like an alternative take on what's in the Mormon Ad in the OP.

A prophet teaches whatever the world is selling. Your standards are higher than that.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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Not Buying It
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:58 pm

“Your standards are higher than that” - except in the case of a President of the Church who was misogynist, racist, treasure hunting, dabbling in folk magic, or marrying underage girls, in which case he was just doing what everyone else at the time was doing.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

misterfake371
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by misterfake371 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:59 pm

Wait... isn't a scarf with a tank top dumb? Those don't go together. I mean, how can your neck be cold enough to warrant wearing a scarf, yet your shoulders and arms warm enough to go around in a sleeveless shirt? That outfit really is dumb! Or... maybe it's a fashion thing I don't understand. I've never been great at fashion.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

Reuben
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by Reuben » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 pm

misterfake371 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:59 pm
Wait... isn't a scarf with a tank top dumb? Those don't go together. I mean, how can your neck be cold enough to warrant wearing a scarf, yet your shoulders and arms warm enough to go around in a sleeveless shirt? That outfit really is dumb! Or... maybe it's a fashion thing I don't understand. I've never been great at fashion.
Isn't it the arms of a sweater? I only see that look in anime now, but wearing your sweater like a cape was all the rage among the upper classes sometime in the 1990s. It was like... like being hugged all day by a tiny, starving person.

That's the real crime in this modesty propaganda: a crime against fashion.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

misterfake371
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by misterfake371 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:15 pm

Reuben wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 pm

It was like... like being hugged all day by a tiny, starving person.
Hey, you stole that line from Mitch Hedberg!

uh... well maybe you didn't steal it from Hedberg, exactly but what you wrote is very similar to this joke of his just googled: "Wearing a turtleneck is like being strangled by a really weak guy, all day. Wearing a backpack and a turtleneck is like a weak midget trying to bring you down."
Last edited by misterfake371 on Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

misterfake371
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Re: Don't be a dummy

Post by misterfake371 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:16 pm

Reuben wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 pm

Isn't it the arms of a sweater?
Ha! Yes, you're right! It is a sweater. I thought it was a scarf for a second.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

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