Packing Heat

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StarbucksMom
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Packing Heat

Post by StarbucksMom » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:51 am

So I went to Sac Mtng w/ the fam Sunday, and was bored to tears as usual. Then my 14 yo daughter starts kind of freaking out and pointing and mouthing “mom look” from a few chairs over. Lo and behold red-neckish recently returned mish is packing, not very concealed-like. I told one of my boys to snap a pic.

After church, I did tell my kids that in light of recent shootings like the Mosque, Jewish Synagogue, Baptist (??) church in the last couple years, I’d rather someone trained have a gun at church than not. In a past ward, a police officer used to come to Sac dressed in full uniform w/a gun, (prob on a break or on his way to work.) And my husband said he knows another retired police officer who packs every week. I just think he actually conceals it.

What interesting things did you see at Sacrament last week?

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Just This Guy
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:05 pm

CHI actually says no gun in church. So the Bish should talk to them if anyone complains.*

In all practicality, church shooting are incredibly rare in the US. There were three in 2017 and 2018 combined. and 18 in the last 20 years. You are actually statistically way more likely to be in a school shooting than church. To me, it is more paranoia and christian persecution complex than an actual issue.

I really don't have an issue with someone concealed caring as long as they are trained and following all applicable laws. Just they need to make sure that they conceal it. The whole point is to make sure that no one knows you have it. A shoulder holster may work better in this application. I fear more the person with little to no training thinking they will be a hero.

The first rule of gun safety is knowing how to properly handle a weapon.


*One time my dad was getting a gun shipped and borrowed a shipping case from a ward member. My dad returned the case to him before SM. One guy in the ward flipped out! Even when he was shown the case was empty, he still had a fit.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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græy
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by græy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:28 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:05 pm
CHI actually says no gun in church. So the Bish should talk to them if anyone complains.*
I was going to note this as well. Concealed carry permit or not, guns in the building are a policy no-no.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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moksha
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by moksha » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:00 pm

I think there is an ever-present danger of a gospel topics disagreement turning into a shootout between young Elders, not to mention the anger of someone sitting in another families designated pew. We are a prophetic and gun loving people.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by wtfluff » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:14 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:05 pm
In all practicality, church shooting are incredibly rare in the US. There were three in 2017 and 2018 combined. and 18 in the last 20 years. You are actually statistically way more likely to be in a school shooting than church. To me, it is more paranoia and christian persecution complex than an actual issue.
Yep. You're much more likely to be injured / die in a car accident on the way to/from church.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Just This Guy
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:35 pm

I have no statistics to back this up, but I suspect that you are more likely to die from natural causes in church (boredom if it is a Mormon church) than a shooting.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

Reuben
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Reuben » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:47 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:35 pm
I have no statistics to back this up, but I suspect that you are more likely to die from natural causes in church (boredom if it is a Mormon church) than a shooting.
I can confirm this from personal experience.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

Wonderment
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Wonderment » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:24 pm

Okay, that's just crazy. It's also a really unsafe way to carry a gun. If he's that insistent on packing heat in church, he needs to get a proper holster.
Imagine if that gun has the safety off, and it falls out of his pants and discharges. That would certainly wake up all of the snoozers during Sacrament Meeting. - Wndr.

hmb
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by hmb » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:23 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:35 pm
I have no statistics to back this up, but I suspect that you are more likely to die from natural causes in church (boredom if it is a Mormon church) than a shooting.
I die a little each Sunday I attend.


I UNDERSTAND NOW! "Bored to tears..." That's why So. Many. Tears. during F&T meeting.

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crossmyheart
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by crossmyheart » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

hmb wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:23 am
Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:35 pm
I have no statistics to back this up, but I suspect that you are more likely to die from natural causes in church (boredom if it is a Mormon church) than a shooting.
I die a little each Sunday I attend.
I die a little too.


I work in law enforcement and have worn my uniform and full duty belt to church when on a shift or heading to a shift. But most of the time when I was active I always wore concealed-carry on Sunday. I doubt anyone ever even knew I was carrying.
Too many layers going on to cover up the *&^%$# garments helped with concealment.

We had a sex offender in the ward who was on parole and too many people out there with a vengeance against LEO- and more domestic violence situations going on than you may know about. But this is my perspective as a commissioned officer. No idea why a joe-citizen would want to open carry unless they just wanted to show off. Napoleon Syndrome...

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Red Ryder
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:46 am

I interviewed a lady for an open position in my department. She had previously worked for a company that made flash holsters.

As she was explaining her past work experience I asked "what is a flash holster?" She said it's a holster worn under your shirt and you flash someone your boobs and pull out a gun!

Needless to say I didn't hire her.

I'm still curious to know if she was wearing one to the job interview. :lol:
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Just This Guy
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Just This Guy » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:02 pm

StarbucksMom,

Depending on where you live, this could be a legal issue.

Louisiana & Nebraska specifically ban all firearms from churches. North Dakota, Missouri, Arkansas, Michigan, Ohio, South Carolina, & Washington DC state you may only conceal carry in a church if you have a valid CC permit and the pastor/Bishop gives permission. Apply that your situation as needed.

For me, That most strikes me as a security concern. Sitting there like that, it would be easy for someone to come up behind him and grab it out of the holster. A good pickpocket could take it without him ever even knowing. Looks like a expensive loss waiting to happen.

*************
Correction: I would be VERY concerned with this person. The gun is n the holster with the HAMMER COCKED. Basically it is ready to fire. That is a major safety no-no. There is no reason for a person in a space of safety to carry a gun like this. If a person is willing to take a firearm out like that, then I would be very nervous about their ability to handle a gun with safety and common sense.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

Wonderment
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Wonderment » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:04 pm

hats actually a pretty decent custom made Kydex holster. There is a pretty low chance of the handgun falling out. Second. Your post reminds me of my friend who took his .38 to church. He was playing with it and it went off right into his hand and up his arm. Some kid found the bullet after it bounced off the wall and landed right next to him. It was less than a week that the church came out with it official anti-gun policy.
Oh, I see now that he does have it in a holster. I didn't notice that before. It looked as if it was just tucked into the back of his waistband. -- Wndr.

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slk
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by slk » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:59 pm

Talking to a member of the bishopric several years, I was trying to get his opinion on packing heat at church despite state law and he pretty much thought it was a dumb idea. He insinuated that no harm could happen in "the Lord's" church. I thought that was a pretty silly assumption. And this guy was an avid hunter and I'm sure pro-gun in any other scenario.

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Culper Jr.
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Culper Jr. » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:04 am

I have a concealed carry permit, but I rarely carry at church. A lot of times having a gun on you can be more of a liability than an asset, so you have to be careful and know what you're doing. I like to have the option to carry, and I like having some training about the laws and all... often it's different than what people think. You can buy a handgun with no training, marksmanship ability or demonstrated knowledge of the laws if you pass a background check and then easily get into a dangerous situation because you didn't think something through, so I think the permit is worth it just to get a little training.

I have carried to church a couple of times when I was up there alone and late at night working on something, and then once when I was there with the bishop and he had to meet with a couple involved in some domestic violence stuff and we were the only ones in the building. But most of the time when there are a lot of people up there and kids running around and all, it seems the potential for it to be a problem is much greater than the probability that I would need it.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:50 am

Kids gonna rupture his spine when he falls on that. Terrible way to carry.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Not Buying It » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:24 pm

I find it ironic that some of the same people who call liberals “snowflakes” are too scared to go to a freakin’ Church meeting without packing heat. Given the questionable judgment, inability to calmly respond to a crisis, poor skills in reading situations and responding appropriately, and emotional instability of the average American, wannabe Rambos with guns in Church make me feel considerably less safe than I would otherwise feel. I’m supposed to feel safer because some 21 year old punk thinks it’s cool to let people see he has a gun in Church? Part of the reason he wants people to see he has a gun is ego related, and that’s a red flag in my book.

I’d feel a lot less safe, not more safe, if I were you. You have a have a lot more trust in other people than I do to see that as something that makes you safer.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:54 pm

Not Buying It wrote:I find it ironic that some of the same people who call liberals “snowflakes” are too scared to go to a freakin’ Church meeting without packing heat. Given the questionable judgment, inability to calmly respond to a crisis, poor skills in reading situations and responding appropriately, and emotional instability of the average American, wannabe Rambos with guns in Church make me feel considerably less safe than I would otherwise feel. I’m supposed to feel safer because some 21 year old punk thinks it’s cool to let people see he has a gun in Church? Part of the reason he wants people to see he has a gun is ego related, and that’s a red flag in my book.

I’d feel a lot less safe, not more safe, if I were you. You have a have a lot more trust in other people than I do to see that as something that makes you safer.
I think the term snowflake is targeted more at those who have an irrational fear towards firearms, as if they have a will of their own. I think the example cited above with the freaking out over an empty rifle case is a good example of hoplophobia.

Last edited by FiveFingerMnemonic on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:01 pm

Just This Guy wrote:StarbucksMom,

Depending on where you live, this could be a legal issue.

Louisiana & Nebraska specifically ban all firearms from churches. North Dakota, Missouri, Arkansas, Michigan, Ohio, South Carolina, & Washington DC state you may only conceal carry in a church if you have a valid CC permit and the pastor/Bishop gives permission. Apply that your situation as needed.

For me, That most strikes me as a security concern. Sitting there like that, it would be easy for someone to come up behind him and grab it out of the holster. A good pickpocket could take it without him ever even knowing. Looks like a expensive loss waiting to happen.

*************
Correction: I would be VERY concerned with this person. The gun is n the holster with the HAMMER COCKED. Basically it is ready to fire. That is a major safety no-no. There is no reason for a person in a space of safety to carry a gun like this. If a person is willing to take a firearm out like that, then I would be very nervous about their ability to handle a gun with safety and common sense.
Totally depends on the type of firearm. For example. "Cocked and locked" meaning hammer back, weapon on safe is perfectly acceptable and preferred method for the 1911 series of handguns. If the weapon is a double action with decocker, no manual safety, that would be a dangerous method.

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Raylan Givens
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Re: Packing Heat

Post by Raylan Givens » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:12 pm

Culper Jr. wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:04 am
I have a concealed carry permit, but I rarely carry at church. A lot of times having a gun on you can be more of a liability than an asset, so you have to be careful and know what you're doing. I like to have the option to carry, and I like having some training about the laws and all... often it's different than what people think. You can buy a handgun with no training, marksmanship ability or demonstrated knowledge of the laws if you pass a background check and then easily get into a dangerous situation because you didn't think something through, so I think the permit is worth it just to get a little training.

I have carried to church a couple of times when I was up there alone and late at night working on something, and then once when I was there with the bishop and he had to meet with a couple involved in some domestic violence stuff and we were the only ones in the building. But most of the time when there are a lot of people up there and kids running around and all, it seems the potential for it to be a problem is much greater than the probability that I would need it.
This is how I feel. A lot more responsibility than I feel I want to take on right now.

The local gun shop is offering concealed classes for free for teachers.

I can technically bring a concealed gun with me to campus as long as it stays on me at all times. No setting it down, and no safe gun/locker allowed on property. That doesn't sound fun teaching for 8 hours. I also wouldn't want to be mistaken when first responders come.

I used to home teach with my wife's boss. He was in the bishopric, he always carried heat when we visited people in the not as safe parts of town. That guy knows his stuff, wouldn't mess with him.
"Ah, you know, I think you use the Bible to do whatever the hell you like" - Raylan Givens

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